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Follow up & analysis of Palin e-mail controversy

By today we’re well aware that the e-mails posted were legitimate, as the McCain campaign has made a statement regarding the situation, and an investigation is under way.

The Register is reporting the investigation may be relatively easy to conclude.  The attacker attempted to cover their tracks using ctunnel.com, a proxy service.  This way, when Yahoo searches their logs, the visits would have appeared from ctunnel.com, rather than the address information of the person(s) who had broken in to the account.  It just so happens that ctunnel.com logs connections for situations such as this, and thanks to screen shots showing a large portion of the ctunnel.com URL in the address bar of the web browser, it’s going to be pretty easy to match that to the log files.

Anyway, now that the dust has settled some, I thought maybe I’d take a few moments to respond to the slew of comments and hatemail about the Pailin e-mails.  It doesn’t seem many understand the nature of the situation, and mainstream media is having a field day with spin and framing the story for whoever candidate they’re biased to.  So here’s my thoughts:

… on anonymous

First, a little background on who “anonymous” is.  They’re often referred to as a “group,” but they’re more like an Internet counter-culture.  There is NO organization, agenda, or leadership.  It’s just a bunch of individuals acting on their own that wear the label.  Their main playground is the 4chan.org website, though there are dozens of other spin-off sites.  The site, and others like it, are based on “imageboard” software, which is like a message board, but puts emphasis on posting images over posting discussion.  Those who post on any of the 4chan boards are not required to sign up for an account, and are not required to leave any identifying information – hence “anonymous.”  Threads on the board only last as long as they’re being actively being replied to, and otherwise will fade away and are automatically removed from the system when visitors have moved on to more “interesting” topics.

It originally started for those with interest in Japanese culture, anime cartoons, and that sort of thing.  It contains different categories, one of which being “Random,” or the /b/ board.  This was an anything-goes area of the website that’s grown virally to enormous proportions. The /b/ board is basically the armpit of the Internet, where people post photos and jokes of all sorts (often spreading beyond their confines as viral “memes” – if you use the web, you’ve probably seen some of these “memes” without even realizing) – including copious amounts of pornography, gore, and racist material – and it’s cultural norm there to find it funny, no matter the content or context.  Some of the postings are actually still related to Japanese culture, though few and far between.  /b/ loosely organizes on occasion to play pranks; their spoils being screen shots or photographs of their pranks, that they then in turn post onto the board to poke more fun at.  Pranks (or “raids” as they call it) have run the gamut from making fun of people with eating disorders on on-line support groups, inserting pornography and racist imagery into on-line children’s games, breaking into MySpace and Facebook accounts, prank calling talk shows, and all the way up to “real-life” pranks as serious as bomb threats.  Even the much famed Scientology protests organized by “anonymous” wasn’t so much about an ethical, religious, or moral stance against the group – it was simply to annoy them, grab 15 minutes of fame, and get a few laughs.

All in all, these folks aren’t activists.  They’re an immature bunch (probably because most are teenagers), simply seeking attention and make mischief to get it.  Sometimes that mischief is rather high profile, like yesterday, and it gets them high profile attention.  The Internet to them, is a mere playground. Take one glance at their website, and you’ll see what I mean (but do so only if you’re prepared to be offended and thoroughly disgusted on every level humanly possible.  That’s NOT an exaggeration.  You’ve been warned.)

… on how it all went down

This description was posted to the 4chan board yesterday, by a person going by the nickname “rubico.”  I’ll stress, there’s no way to confirm this, because again, people are allowed to post whatever they want anonymously.  It does seem to jive with how things played out however.  Red text is my “translation” for you, for those who don’t speak “Internet”.

rubico 09/17/08(Wed)12:57:22 No.85782652

Hello, /b/ as many of you might already know, last night sarah palin’s yahoo was “hacked” and caps were posted on /b/, i am the lurker who did it, and i would like to tell the story.

In the past couple days news had come to light about palin using a yahoo mail account, it was in news stories and such, a thread was started full of newfags (somebody relatively new to the website) trying to do something that would not get this off the ground, for the next 2 hours the acct was locked from password recovery presumably from all this bullshit spamming.

after the password recovery was reenabled, it took seriously 45 mins on wikipedia and google to find the info, Birthday? 15 seconds on wikipedia, zip code? well she had always been from wasilla, and it only has 2 zip codes (thanks online postal service!)

the second was somewhat harder, the question was “where did you meet your spouse?” did some research, and apparently she had eloped with mister palin after college, if youll look on some of the screenshits that I took and other fellow anon have so graciously put on photobucket you will see the google search for “palin eloped” or some such in one of the tabs.

I found out later though more research that they met at high school, so I did variations of that, high, high school, eventually hit on “Wasilla high” I promptly changed the password to popcorn and took a cold shower…

>> rubico 09/17/08(Wed)12:58:04 No.85782727

this is all verifiable if some anal /b/tard wants to think Im a troll (if a “regular visitor” thinks I’m lying), and there isn’t any hard proof to the contrary, but anyone who had followed the thread from the beginning to the 404 (when the discussion topic expired) will know I probably am not, the picture I posted this topic with is the same one as the original thread.

I read though the emails… ALL OF THEM… before I posted, and what I concluded was anticlimactic, there was nothing there, nothing incriminating, nothing that would derail her campaign as I had hoped, all I saw was personal stuff, some clerical stuff from when she was governor…. And pictures of her family

I then started a topic on /b/, peeps asked for pics or gtfo (aka “prove it”) and I obliged, then it started to get big

Earlier it was just some prank to me, I really wanted to get something incriminating which I was sure there would be, just like all of you anon out there that you think there was some missed opportunity of glory, well there WAS NOTHING, I read everything, every little blackberry confirmation… all the pictures, and there was nothing, and it finally set in, THIS internet was serious business, yes I was behind a proxy, only one, if this shit ever got to the FBI I was fucked, I panicked, i still wanted the stuff out there but I didn’t know how to rapidshit all that stuff (post to a file sharing site, rapidshare.com), so I posted the pass on /b/, and then promptly deleted everything, and unplugged my internet and just sat there in a comatose state

Then the white knight fucker came along, and did it in for everyone, I trusted /b/ with that email password, I had gotten done what I could do well, then passed the torch , all to be let down by the douchebaggery, good job /b/, this is why we cant have nice things

… on spin and conspiracy theories

We don’t yet know for sure who’s responsible, as the above account can’t be confirmed.  Given the description above and armed with some general knowledge as to how this “group” behaves, it is totally likely that whoever perpetrated it acted alone. These are teens and adolescents that for a large part would rather be trading pornography than be involved in a political scandal.  There’s a chance the perpetrator isn’t even old enough to vote.

At any rate, when you hear labels like “extreme left wing activist group” attributed to anonymous in the media, it’s time to change the channel.  That’s simply not true, and is way off base.  There’s no particular affiliation; they’re a bunch of individuals, acting individually, though under the same guise.

It’s been interesting to see both sides spin it with their theories.  We have republicans angered, claiming it’s nothing but liberals or “Obama operatives” relentlessly digging for dirt.  We have democrats claiming this was done intentionally as a publicity stunt.  We have others yet with really twisted conspiracies that say Palin faked the hacking of her e-mail in order to have cover to delete the accounts.  (News for that theory, Yahoo has probably just “disabled” the account, leaving its contents in tact.  Even if it was “deleted,” a company such as Yahoo surely has back-ups.)  So again, all of these ideas are stretching it.  It was basically a prank.  Even despite the language above about “derailing the campaign,” the goal was probably a notoriety grab.  The more attention and drama a prank stirs up, the more its “lulz” value rises – how funny it is to them.  They would do the same to any candidate; it just so happens the Palin compromise was easy to pull off.

… on posting the material

I’m really disappointed with all the threats I’ve received as a result of this – disappointed that so few of us know our own rights.  I guess it’s hard to know any more these days with the ways our constitution has been trampled the past few years, but we can still cling on to the first amendment for the most part.  I admit, I had to double check for myself to be sure, but found nothing that suggests it’s in the wrong to have posted these.  If you’re still not sure, you might want to read about a 2001 Supreme Court decision, Bartnicki v. Vopper, which bears quite a resemblence to this situation.  Even further back, take a history lesson on the Pentagon Papers, where the courts sided on free speech in spite of illegally obtained, classified documents with supposed national security implications were published by the New York Times.  The EFF has also posted an analysis of the situation, and citing the same case I mention, comes to quite the same conclusion.  Even the McCain campaign statement was “we hope that anyone in possession of these e-mails will destroy them” – notice, it wasn’t “we demand these e-mails be destroyed.”  With all due respect to the campaign, there’s only a little material here, it is of public concern, it is newsworthy, and isn’t remotely damning to your candidate.  It’s public knowledge now, for better or worse.  I of course don’t condone or reccomend anybody even attempting to violate anybody else’s privacy; it’s dispicable and cowardly regardless the situation.  In the wake of the incident, some sites *have* taken it too far in my humble opinion – Gawker having posted Bristol Palin’s cell phone number so that folks could call it – even leaving a recording of her voicemail message on their website – is definitely crossing the line, and I’ll join in on saying “shame on you, Gawker.”

… lastly, on political slant, and this blog

After being called all sorts of names and accused of being all sorts of things, I did also want to remind anybody who had read the story here yesterday that I didn’t make political commentary one way or the other.  I try to cover topics relating to technology, the Internet, and science on this little corner of the web.  As such, the incidence was reported because it was a high profile breach in security on a popular e-mail service.  That’s all, it was Internet related news to me just as much as it was political news.  The posting wasn’t an attack on Palin, or on anybody for that matter.

When all is said and done, there really wasn’t anything incriminating or even all that INTERESTING found in these e-mails.  Rebpulicans can relax knowing their gal won’t be incriminated by what was found, and democrats can relax knowing the truth will come out that this wasn’t an attack lobbed from their side either.  As for any lingering conspiracy theorists, please understand this probably took all sides by complete surprise.  The rest of us?  Consider it a tounge-in-cheek stock tip: beat the down markets and economic crisis by investing in tinfoil hats.


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  • Asmononymous

    Meh, close enough. At least you acknowledge that Anonymous isn’t really a group so much as it’s just a bunch of internet people dicking around.

  • Terryeo

    Why. The last piece of anony’s message is b/s. After hacking in like a professional he insists he’s an amateur. Deception!

    Anony formed up a group. Now demonstrates it can hack. Earlier demonstrated it can take down a big website (scientology).

    Now Anony begins to sell its services. Why – to make money, that’s why.

  • JGoodson

    Tech voice you areSOOO nieve! The hacker said he wanted to “derail” her campaign. Grow up and see evil for what it is. LIBERAL

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  • http://artvoice.com Anthony

    JGoodson, it’s not naievity at all. I understand what you’re saying, I understand the “derail statement,” but its still missing the point.

    Going on the general behavior of these “anonymous” folks, ‘derailing a campaign’ isn’t necessarily politically motivated. I know that’s hard to swallow. But the idea is usually to pull these pranks at the highest levels possible, with the biggest effect possible. Don’t think for a second they wouldn’t have done the same to Obama’s, Biden’s, Clinton’s, McCain’s e-mails (OK so I threw “McCain’s e-mail” in for some humor – maybe they’ll hack his Blackberry instead? :))… but it doesn’t matter… anything for a big “score” and get everybody talking about them. The goal isn’t the “derailment,” but rather would have been a very effective means to get attention… they could have taken credit and been known as the ones that derailed the campaign if something incriminating was in there.

    But I’ll also re-iterate we don’t have confirmation that the account posted is even truthful in the first place. We’ll find out more I’m sure when the person(s) are caught. I can’t, and don’t speak for any “anonymous”, this is just my gut feeling after following their antics for ages now…

  • lolwut

    >Why. The last piece of anony’s message is b/s. After hacking in like a professional he insists he’s an amateur. Deception!

    >Anony formed up a group. Now demonstrates it can hack. Earlier demonstrated it can take down a big website (scientology).

    >Now Anony begins to sell its services. Why – to make money, that’s why.

    Hacking like a professional? Yes, going through a single proxy and following the preset password recovery settings is HARDCORE HACKING. BRB I’M GOING TO TAKE DOWN A BANK WITH THOSE HARDCORE HACKING SKILLS.

    Or not, Palin simply made a stupid mistake in her choice of password recovery questions, a lot of stuff which is either common sense or publicly accessible.

    As far as “TAKING DOWN SCIENTOLOGY” no. Just no. That was a DDoS attack which is not so much hacking as scripting, using a program to more or less say “HELLO” a few times a second (when spread over a few thousand people will overwhelm any server). Anon (not Anony… where did that come from?) for the most part cannot hack. A few of us are Computer Science people, or programmers (the meaning of hacker actually is someone who knows how computers work and how to manipulate them to do what we want), but by and far, Anon knows very little.

    And… LOL… ANON WILL BEGIN TO SELL ITS SERVICES. Yes, you’re right. A loose conglomeration of internet fiends will all sign up for a joint bank account, trusting one another not to take the money nor call in the FBI, to sell our manpower to undertake illegal operations.

    Terryeo, or should we say Terry Olson, Scientology supporter and anti-Anonymous (THEY ATTACKED MY PRECIOUS SCIENTOLOGY… BAWWWWW… WHAT WILL HAPPEN IF LORD XENU COMES BACK OR MY THETANS DON’T LEAVE?! \(-_-)/ oh noes) At least get your facts straight before you talk out of your anus. 😀 KTHXBAI!

    >Tech voice you areSOOO nieve! The hacker said he wanted to “derail” her campaign. Grow up and see evil for what it is. LIBERAL

    It isn’t so much liberalism, and more so the chaotic anarchical structure of Anon. We do what we want cuz we (personally, not necessarily collectively) find it amusing. Get off of your high horse and sit down and shaddup.

    >All in all, these folks aren’t activists. They’re an immature bunch (probably because most are teenagers), simply seeking attention and make mischief to get it. Sometimes that mischief is rather high profile, like yesterday, and it gets them high profile attention. Take one glance at their website, and you’ll see what I mean (but do so only if you’re prepared to be offended and thoroughly disgusted on every level humanly possible. That’s NOT an exaggeration. You’ve been warned.)

    Close… but to be quite honest, we’d just as well be left the hell alone. We don’t want publicity, that brings in people who think they understand our culture due to posts like this and go “HURRRR LET ME POST SOME FURRY PORN! THEY DON’T HAVE THAT HERE! OR LOL… 2GIRLS1CUP IS HILARIOUS AND NEW!!! MY HIGH SCHOOL FRIENDS JUST SHOWED IT TO ME.” Again, no. We originally were just a bunch of college students, mostly math, science, and computer science or engineering majors who would come onto 4chan and dick around. /b/ wasn’t as active as it is now (with post counts flying higher and higher every day) and we had a more hardcore group of members. Do not label us as attention seekers, granted some are, but that is not /b/, that is what people like YOU have made /b/ out to be and turned it into.

    Please, unless you choose to “lurk” on our site, don’t talk about our culture. Thanks much!

  • Terryeo

    You’re right. I’ve been misguided, and I renounce Scientology.

    I always whine about Anonymous getting paid to do what they do when it was actually me, getting paid by David Miscavige (in peanuts), who wanted to get paid the millions of internet dollars. That don’t exist.

    Please help me. I’m posting from a sub-deck level on the Freewinds and it’s getting pretty stuffy down here.

  • lolwut

    Mr Olson, you’re welcome to whatever opinion you want. I just think the idea that we are getting paid at all for what we do (other than in laughter) is hilarious. How would that work? Explain it to me :-)

    Also… WarToads lurk moar. Thank God all the garbage about Scientology is over. That stuff was garbage (and I know who you are cuz you’re using my router… stfu) and if you keep up on it, I’ll smack you in the face with a reasonably large tuna.

  • HURFDURF

    HUUURRRR WE IZ ONONYMUS LEGION DUUURRR WE HAXZORZ MAJOR SHITZ… What the fuck ever. I’m reasonably convinced it was probably someone from the McCain campaign trying to stir up support for the ignorant masses in order to fight against net neutrality and get a bunch more retards to believe that they need to give up some more constitutional rights. CYBOTURRRISTZ_ZOMG??!!!! WE MUST FIGHTS ITZ!!!!111 I haven’t heard anything out of that asspuppet O’Reilly yet but I’m sure you’ll start hearing him push the issue in the coming weeks. A yahoo account with a password that simple (and I’m sure it had just as easy a password recovery hint “what’s my favorite snack food? teehee!!” or something as such) I could give a shit who did it honestly but my money’s on it being a political propaganda publicity stunt. I just seriously doubt the Obama campaign would risk something like this and no paranoid liberal hacker is really going to believe that her YAHOO account had any kind of sensitive information in it. It’s just disgusting to see these assholes in the media like O’Reilly have a field day with this horseshit and label all 4channers as “liberals” and terrorist cp fappers. Fuck, they can’t even decide what kind of porn they like. As for me, I’m a moderate libertarian for fucks sake. I could give a shit about any of those assholes on both sides of the fence. Does anyone really expect an imageboard website that doesn’t require ANY form or registration or identification of any kind that gets hundreds of thousands of hits a day from all over the world with little to no moderation (except for illegal content) to be organized? Really? Then I’m Sarah fuckin’ Palin. Just what we need in office… another asshole willing to play middle America for ignorant chumps and knee-jerk patriot suckers for their political gain. For all it’s fucking worth, I hope Obama does win. And I can’t stand socialists.

  • HURFDURF

    So it was some democrat state rep’s kid? Fuck it. Imma move to Canada.

  • glo53

    I wouldn’t eat at this place if I was paid to. He has flaunted for years the murders he does of animals that will soon be extinct. Another trophy hunter that I pray will get his one day. How I would love to see an elephant stampede with him in the middle of it. Everyone needs to stay away from all of his restaurants, hopefully bankrupt this useless piece of ****!!!

    • BobHop

      Another clueless bleeding heart. Extinct? Maybe you should read up on African countries conservation and animal control efforts. Then you might be able to make an intelligent statement.

      • glo53

        What are you the animal authority here????? I hate to differ with your useless opinion but yes, I do know what I’m talking about. Get a life and quit posting on people’s remarks on this page like you know everything………….you don’t!!!

      • BobHop

        Please tell us then which are becoming extinct? Also explain why Africa has an overpopulation of elephants in many areas, do you propose relocating them? Until you answer such basic questions your opinion is ridiculous.

      • jack

        Bob, she’s just a useless hole with zero clue of how the world works outside of buffalo and what she reads in artvoice

      • glo53

        This article wasn’t just on Artvoice, I read an article in the news and also on a website. I do not appreciate being called names such as hole nor do I appreciate opinions being stuffed down mine and others throats on here. Yes, we are ALL entitled to opinions and calling me names shows me the character of who I’m dealing with. And for those that made comments……NO, I have no meat in my home. Hunters are all the same, they talk and brag and it’s sickening to me. Just once take a second and think, gee maybe I could be wrong or is that too hard for you to do?? For now go away and tell your stories and lies to somebody that cares, I have no use for any of your crap.

      • Molloi

        If there is overpopulation, the AFRICAN authorities deal with it. We don’t need you to come and get cheap kills and thrills here.

      • Molloi

        Tell me why you love hunting so much. I don’t understand it. To kill something for fun… it’s too much for me take in

    • jack

      You’re clueless

    • Molloi

      Well said

  • Sharon

    It is not about being “legal” as what is legal does not make it ethical. Nor does legal hunting make a difference to the animal hunted. There will be justifications made to any sick human behavior, but the truth will remain… those who kill for pleasure and brag about it lack a basic quality of existance – compassion.

    • BobHop

      Tell that to African villages that have their crop destroyed by overpopulated species.

      • Sharon

        Hhhmmm – nature naturally controls species as it has done long before humans. And no educated person would deny that the ONLY overpopulated species threatening other species is humans – across the entire planet.

      • James Chant

        I always though humans were part of nature… seeing we were born here and all.

        So, same question as I ask the other guy. If humans are so threatening to the planet, then when are you taking yourself and your family out of the equation?
        Don’t you think the “educated” people should lead by example?

      • Sharon

        Good question – and I am leading by example…by a myriad of ways. I did not choose to be born, but I am choosing to live by leaving this earth better than how I find it. Respecting all life is only one way. Helping to clean up the environment is another. I cannot be responsible for anyone else’s behavior, but I do my own.

      • MonaLisaFrown

        Yep. Those damn rabbits always eating my carrots. Give me a break. We’re not talking about rhinos stampeding into a village and flattening it. For God’s sake.

      • Molloi

        I’m from Africa and crops are not destroyed by any species. We don’t have overpopulation of animals!!!!

    • jack

      You’re probably voting for Bernie too. Hippies are bad, but nothing beats elmwood village entitled hippies .

      • Sharon

        What? you pull in politics? What does politics have to do with killing animals??? Well – being that I am a registered republican hopefully will help you refocus on the issue being discussed here. (I would venture a guess from your insulting nature that you are a Trump follower though.)

      • Molloi

        And you approve of Trumps sons enjoying hunting. Not for food but for the cheap thrill they get. Aaaah Great White Republican Hunter.

      • Ryan

        hey now yall can we all just get along?
        For starters, though this man did kill what are majestic animals, he did so in a humane way that brought money and food to the people of these villages. Second, this also brought money to the conservation to protect these animals from poachers.
        You also seem to attach all hunters as people looking for cheap thrills which is wrong. Now I wont say there is not a thrill in hunting, because there is, but it goes much deeper as its for the food, the adventure, the love for the outdoors just to name a few. These hunters often times are people who love nature and take the time to enjoy it and will spend the time to clean up the trash and take care of the environment.
        Lastly, before we come in hating on this man for his hunt lets think back to a time or money we have donated to helping the same organizations his money has gone to. Not many of us can think of an instance because we haven’t. And yes, before we start saying well I wouldn’t do in the same manner as him, he still did provide the money that will be used for good use.

      • Molloi

        Thanks
        Ryan for saving poor, backward Africa by killing their majestic animals just
        for the fun of it. We appreciate it from the American People who also helped
        the world by causing global warming. It is the 21st century. Wild
        animals are under threat. To decimate their population in the name of sport is
        no longer acceptable to civilized societies. I presume from your words that you
        consider Africa uncivilized. Donating money to save animals is a global effort
        and not just from your country and in no way should be used as an excuse to
        condone the killing of wild animals for fun who are not only under threat from
        hunting for pleasure and poaching but also from global warming.

    • MonaLisaFrown

      We have a word for that: Sociopath. And that’s exactly what this douchbag is. Legal does not equal moral justification. It’s ‘legal’ in some countries to throw acid on the face of a woman who denies your proposal. See how ridiculous that sounds? Ugh. The ignorance… it’s just astounding.

  • Phill Spunt

    All of you misunderstand the point of hunting, which Is to get meat from animals. He even mentioned that all the meat was eaten. And none of these animals are going extinct either, the white rhino has made a dramatic return. You say hunting is sick but eat meat from a supermarket which was given a worse death than anything that’s ever been hunted.

    • Ernie Meyer

      you are delusional…white rhinos are on the brink.

      • Phill Spunt

        No they’re not Google it they’ve reached huntable numbers

      • Molloi

        Phil what is about you that you love hunting animals. Does it make you feel like a macho man??

      • Phill Spunt

        I don’t even hunt, try again you assumptative liberal fucktard. People that do save money on meat and it keeps animals from starving to death over the winter you ragingly ignorant hippie liberal douche. You abhor hunting but probably have meat in your fridge that was tortured before being killed and most likely bled out, whereas animals that are hunted are shot in the heart or lungs so they die quicker. So learn the facts before you have an opinion next time and get a job you hippie idiot.

      • Molloi

        Sorry Phil, I’m from a third world country and I don’t understand what a hippie liberal douche is. I’ve tried googling and douche and it doesn’t make sense to me. Our animals in South Africa must be protected. Rhinos are being killed every day and it makes us heartsore. The meat that we eat is not farmed like they do in America.
        YOU CANNOT EAT RHINO MEAT so stop being disrespectful to third world people who would like to keep their dignity. These are the AFRICAN facts of which you know little.

    • Molloi

      Really- He ate Rhino endangered species!

      • Phill Spunt

        White rhinos have achieved huntable numbers in recent years, look it up. Only black rhinos are endangered

      • Molloi

        Not true… To hunt for fun and cheap thrills. Also they sell the horns for aphrodisiacs to the limp dicks in Asia. We need to protect our Rhinos!!!

      • Phill Spunt

        Oh really? Then why are they hunted in south Africa?

    • Molloi

      Hunting is sick. It is not to eat meat. It’s for the cheap thrill.

      • Phill Spunt

        Maybe you think that because you’re sick at your core, but no it’s to collect meat and also to keep animals from starving to death. Learn anything before you have an opinion you college liberal hippie douche

      • Molloi

        Please… people do not eat Rhino, Giraffe or Lions.

  • Team Justice

    The human race is overpopulated. People are dying and starving and there are diseases we can’t cure. There’s crazy shit happening within our race. The wars we’ve started. Crimes. Pollution. We’re the ones destroying earth. Do we deserve to be hunted? It’s ok to see others get put down in an inhumane way, but i bet you’d be begging for your own life when it’s happening to you. Nobody gives a rats arse unless it’s personal.

  • scott

    Without legal, permitted hunting, there would be no white rhinos or elephants to hunt. Or deer, for that matter. All of the conservation efforts in this country (and elsewhere) have been paid for by hunting permits and a federal tax on firearms.

    • thomas

      That’s big lie the hunting scence likes to tell. Nature needs no hunting. Nowhere. If there were an overpopulation of deer or whatelse (prey), there would be more predators. If there were less prey, there would be less predators. Some animals would starve, but that is nature. Nature would regulate itself as it did for decades. Hunting in our days is not more than a hobby for people who like to shoot living creatures. Nevertheless I don’t want to say that this is a totally bad thing as long as the meat is consumed/the fur is used… I highly appreciate that Artvoice adresses topics like this.

  • foodcrafting

    I don’t really care for legal trophy big game hunting (especially if you don’t consume the animal), but if you actually dig into the details, it’s not too dissimilar to hunting here – where most of the dollars generated actually go back into enabling the conservation and protection of those same species. Therefore, if you’re going to protest this kind of thing – you’d better be contributing financially to the conservation of these animals and habitats yourself, or else you’re just another ignorant, self-centered, misinformed human being who doesn’t understand the true impacts of their actions.

    • Holly Cappello

      The fact is that it is glorified. That is the twisted part of all of this. This guy could give a shit about conservation.

      • Mary Hamilton


        “my .friend’s mate Is getting 98$. HOURLY. on the internet.”….


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    • MonaLisaFrown

      I hardly think his MO is making sure these economically depressed communities are having their basic needs met as the top of his priority list when he’s got an exotic species in his laser sight. This is simply appalling any way you look at it. If I told you the only way to rebuild a town in the US was to go in there and shoot down all the wildlife that lived there BEFORE US, would that be ok? This is not culling the herd. This is engaging in killing for fun. It’s not a sport. It’s sociopathic behavior with zero regard for the fact that these animals have offspring to care for. What a disgusting display of just how fucked up some humans can be. This is embarassing.

      • Da Man

        Lol everyone wants to think of wild animals as some happy family in a Disney movie. These animals would have starved to death from old age or been torn apart by a lion. Guess how many animals in the wild die from old age? it’s 0. I do not think a quick human death is any less than dying from harsh realities of nature.

      • James Hufnagel

        Don’t give me any ideas.

  • jack

    People read artvoice still?

  • becky

    I love this article. In a city with the likes of Jim’s Steak Out and Mike’s Subs, there is no need to support JJ’s sub par sandwiches. The photos of this moron and his grinning thumbs-up over the carcasses of innocent animals are enough to turn my stomach. There are plenty of other choices- boycott away. And shame on Elmwood Village for not following its own mission statement!

  • Da Man

    What a garbage article. Do some research… if it weren’t for hunters there would be no areas of conservation in Africa. All the endangered animals would already be extinct if it weren’t for the money from hunting. Do you have any idea how much some of these permits cost? Hundreds of thousands of dollars which are all being put towards conservation.

  • Kaley Runnels

    ArtVoice, you are completely off your rocker for publishing this with complete disregard for actual research. You should really get your facts straight before you open yourself up to a libel lawsuit. The owner of this Jimmy John’s location is not Jimmy John Liautaud, the CEO. The owner of this Jimmy John’s location is DJ Manning, the franchisee. Jimmy John, the CEO, currently owns only ~50 locations out 2300+. Also, it would be good to note that Panera is by no means a “local” thing; it’s a subsidiary of the St. Louis Bread Co. You’ve also failed to mention that Jimmy John Liautaud, the CEO, has completely pulled his intentions of making the company public this last December because, “I don’t think my wheelhouse is comfortable in Wall Street,” said the founder and CEO of the restaurant chain that has born his name since he first opened it in 1983. “My wheelhouse is small-town America.” That’s a direct quote from Jimmy John himself. All I read in this article is an extremely extrapolated opinion over the ethics of big game hunting being used as economic warfare against a franchise that has no ties to its CEO other than the name causing turmoil and harassment for the actual owners and employees.

  • Phill Spunt

    Read this instead

  • Kevin Reed

    man, like half the posters here are dumb hicks, just like this ass hat pictured above