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  • Jill Pearson

    Hypothetically, what could Ahmed have put together from scrap in 10 or 20 minutes? Let’s say some electronics guru is given a clock display, and then the rest of the the clock minus its display (but including the ribbon that will be attached to the display). Could s/he attach the display to the ribbon in 20 minutes? Will it work correctly even if the display is not from the same clock as the rest of the guts? Same question regarding the button board. The only other thing I can think of that Ahmed may claim he “put together” is attaching the transformer to the rest of the clock. I’m assuming that could be done easily in 20 minutes but certainly not something he would think anyone would be impressed with. But is there any reason why he would do this? There was already a battery backup. Is there an easy way to rig the battery backup to power the rest of the clock, even if he had to unattatch it from where it was? Perhaps a 9v battery wouldn’t be powerful enough though. But what about just attaching a battery pack with enough juice to power it? That seems it would be at least as easy if not easier (not to mention safer) than attaching a transformer. Then he also wouldn’t have a power cord to plug in. Also, even in my house without any electronics tinkerers, we have dozens of old enclosed ac transformers we don’t even know what they go to anymore. Couldn’t he have used one of those too?

  • Jhren

    You’re missing the point. The problem isn’t lack of diversity, although diversity is good. Lack of diversity is just an indicator of the real problem. The reason Republicans have never elected a Muslim is the same reason they’ve never elected an open LGBT person, or a Hindu, or a Buddhist, and why virtually every demographic except white Christians and Cubans reliably votes Democratic. It’s also the same reason they refuse to accept any major scientific discovery made since 1850, why they cling to discredited nonsense like trickle-down economics, why they have no presence in academia and people with postgraduate educations don’t vote for them, why their Presidential candidates deny the Big Bang, etc. etc. etc. The problem is they’re narrow-minded and stuck in the past.

  • DrunkSpock

    No one can make them run under the Republican ticket, despite your assertion that we somehow should. If they want to run as a Republican, good luck to them. There is a reason they don’t and it’s ‘they want to win’. They have more voters on the other side, so that’s who they pander to. Like I said, a lot of it is out of the Republican’s control. I’m sure they would appreciate more diversity but in the land of the free, no one can tell you what party you belong to.

    You’re just trying to establish a narrative that ‘of course the republicans are bigoted’. That is itself bigoted. Like I pointed out, they have diversity, maybe not enough to satisfy you, but who cares? Their job is not to appease you. If you want pandered to, stick with the Democrats.

    I am a liberal, personally I don’t particularly care for Republicans but I will vehemently defend their rights as I’m sure they would do for me.

  • DrunkSpock

    Battery backup only maintains the time and plays a low-volume alarm. Yes he could have used an external AC/DC converter, it would have been a lot safer for him to do so. Congratulations, you have more electronics savvy than ‘Ahmed the Genius’. All of the parts in his clock appear to be verbatim, un-altered contents of the clock mentioned in this article. All he did was put it in a case to make it more concealable.

    Then when he used it the next day, after carefully plugging it in and setting the alarm time, he tied the case shut with wire, despite not being able to see the clock display or use any of its buttons. Then, still plugged in, he hid this device in his possessions and waited for it to go off in the middle of English class. That’s when it stopped being ‘a clock’ and became ‘a hoaxbomb’.

  • DrunkSpock

    Maybe she “solders CPUs” too.

  • Algoria

    I recalled this comment of yours and wanted to see what you had to say about Ahmed and his “clock” on one of your favorite sites. Your account being private – not that there’s anything wrong with that : )
    – meant I had to do some work to find it. It took more than a little scrolling here and then some additional searching on the internet, but I see Wonkette is the place you referenced. [Don’t worry, I’m not an internet stalker. If you don’t reply to this our conversation is done. Or conversely, if you want the last word you shall have it.]
    http://wonkette.com/594378/dead-breitbart-exposes-nerd-hero-clockmaker-as-dangerous-bubble-blowing-thug

    The Wonkette piece was a response to a Breitbart article about Ahmed. I seldom read Breitbart but I read a few of the comments there and they seem to be somewhat of a mixed bag. However, the Wonkette comments were almost invariably crude and stupid. Tell me you began commenting there when you were young and impressionable.

    So many comments there about how Andrew Breitbart is dead and rotting in the grave and what they would like to do to his putrefying corpse. Among them your remarks appeared as the voice of reason but I saw no reasonable reply from anyone there to any of what you said.

    Perhaps it’s wrong for me to criticize your online friends this way, but what kind of friends would reply to your common sense remarks this way?

    trolling assholes; wingnut; your fevered Faux News addled, Rush Limbaugh pill pumped mind; concern troll; crazy conspiracy BS; big ass liar; big Kardashian ass sized LIAR; (LOL These people mistakenly think they’re funny but this comment was unintentional comedy gold) you and all the other concern trolls and racists;

    And so on.

    So disagreeing with these people makes you a racist? Understand that you are a liberal [albeit a generally reasonable one] not to mention the fact that you were undeniably right in what you said and you said it calmly and sensibly. Imagine how these deluded children hate us conservatives. Yes there is hatred on both sides but the fact that they hated you merely for disagreeing with them about one relatively insignificant incident, should give you pause for thought about your liberal/leftist friends.

  • Jhren

    “You’re just trying to establish a narrative that ‘of course the republicans are bigoted’. That is itself bigoted.”

    Are you out of your Vulcan mind? Jews and Muslims both voted for Obama by 75%, as did 72% of Hispanics, 77% of Asian Americans (and 80% of Japanese Americans), 85% of Indian Americans, 90% of Native Americans, 95% of black Americans, etc., etc., etc.

    White Christians are the only demographic group (other than Cubans) who reliably vote Republican. They’re the only group the Republican message appeals to. Am I really supposed to believe that’s an accident? Is everyone other than white Christians just incapable of thinking for themselves?

    And it’s also purely coincidental that they’ve never elected an openly LGBT person to anything? 100% of elected LGBT people have been Democrats but the other party isn’t prejudiced against them at all?

    When Jews and Muslims both vote for one party by a 3 to 1 ratio, something about the other party clearly isn’t right.

  • Tina

    It’s so frustrating that the media no longer tells the truth. People do not realize they are being brainwashed because they still think the media must have integrity. Honesty is not valued, only their agenda. So sad.

  • DrunkSpock

    All those statistics demonstrate is that the voters are biased against Republicans. That is not the Republicans fault or their responsibility to correct. We should elect bad leaders because they fill out a race/religion demographic? Or we should tell Republicans what to believe so they more effectively pander to these demographics? Totally unacceptable and un-American.

    If people have good ideas and they run a good campaign, they’ll win. If not, they won’t. Race/religion irrelevant. It’s not the Republicans obligation to ‘diversify’ simply to appease your arbitrary standards. Frankly, it’s a stupid suggestion.

  • Jhren

    “All those statistics demonstrate is that the voters are biased against Republicans.”

    I see. So every ethnic and religious group other than white Christians is biased. White Christians are the least biased people of all. That’s your explanation? Have you considered the fact that it fits in perfectly with a belief in white supremacy?

  • DrunkSpock

    Are you implying there are no White Christian Democrats?

  • Ichabod Crain

    They don’t like women, minorities, or immigrants. Then how in the world do they ever get enough votes to elect a president or control Congress? Maybe it’s the Mormons? Do they have Mormon? I don’t get it. (But I’m not an American. There must be some kind of American logic to it I am not privy to.)

  • Jhren

    They get barely enough, and also, in American politics, voter turnout is a major factor. For example, Republicans won the elections in 2014, but voter turnout that year was lower than in any election since the Second World War. Only 36% of the eligible population voted, but 75% of those voters were white: http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2014/11/10/voter-turnout-in-2014-was-the-lowest-since-wwii/

    Republican strategy is to win elections by manipulating white Christians and especially white Christian males by making them angry. If they get them angry enough, they can balance their lower numbers with higher turnout. This is something they actually admit to doing, and have for many years: http://gawker.com/5939404/sen-lindsey-graham-not-enough-angry-white-guys-to-sustain-gop

    Fox News also admits this. Here’s Bill O’Reilly talking about “the white Christian male power structure” and how scary it is that it’s breaking down. He’s talking to John McCain when he was running against Obama: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ysoOB9w0tF4

    The Republican Party should have died decades ago; it’s artificially prolonged its existence by attaching itself to a specific demographic group and playing on their anger and fear year after year, in a kind of parasitic relationship, ensuring that policies can still be proposed that would otherwise be un-electable.

  • Jill Pearson

    From what I understand, small electronics devices like this digital clock almost always use DC current. I looked at the manual for this clock and it doesn’t say. Does anyone know for sure? If it does run on DC, then this particular transformer not only steps down the power, but also converts it from AC to DC? Its that right? Here’s a cute video of a girl converting a device that originally plugged into the wall to run on batteries. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_U8s4OalmIs So simple and safe. Obviously the legos are not necessary. Ahmed could have just connected the batteries in series and they would have even fit inside the box.

  • Jhren

    1. You don’t seem to be answering the question.

    2. No, and I don’t understand how you get that implication from my last comment.

  • Carlos Garza

    some where on the circuit board there would most likely be a bridge rectifier done with 4 diodes. I don’t remember the math but you would then take the swing out of the voltage by adding a capacitor to the board. Unless technology had changed since I was a child. But yea this kid gutted a clock and suck it in a case. If this were done on a bread board I would have been impressed as the kid is further alomg then I was at that age but considering that a lot of us used to tear apart old VHS systems clocks radios and put them back together to the point that the where still functioning I find it inflated for him to talk about his inventions. I was hoping he was using an arduino board or something to handle the mod 12 hour arithmatic. (I’m a software developer so I usually run to an ALU to solve problems rather then chaining logic circuits.) I would have been impressed if he was using NANDS and NOR gates to do this. But then I saw he wasn’t even using a bread board and that all he really did was resolder the transformer onto a gutted out premade clock. But why does he still call it an invetion?

  • DrunkSpock

    There is no question, you’re just attacking republicans. What you’re calling ‘a question’, is an insistence that other people agree with you (to validate your witchhunt). I don’t, it’s ridiculous. And you implied that White Christians only vote Republican. That’s obviously wrong. Some of them do, some of them don’t.

  • DrunkSpock

    Ahmed is making it up as he goes. If he had any sense he would have used a microcontroller, like an Arduino, and a few LEDs, and a breadboard. And batteries, like you suggest. Or USB based powersupply. All of which would have cost less than the pencil case he bought expressly for this ‘project’.

    It would have been much safer, more educational and contemporary (that 80s clock was made like something from the 80s), and this page and the anti-Ahmed community wouldn’t exist. We’d all take one look at breadboard + microcontroller + low voltage and say ‘oh I remember doing that when I was a kid’. I would be the kids staunchest defender.

    Instead we have what appears to me to be a deliberate hoaxbombing (aka, terrorism), pawned off as ‘misunderstood electronics enthusiast’. Actual electronics enthusiasts don’t care for being associated with a kid intentionally terrorizing his high school, neither do peaceful Muslims (who, to their credit, immediately held a press conference denouncing the kids obvious hoaxbomb, in support of the Irving police/school board).

  • DrunkSpock

    Hello. Just curious, why do you think he soldered on a power transformer? It looks like the original to me. Maybe I missed an indicator? None of that soldering work looks recent to me. I believe your analysis is otherwise pretty much spot on but I think it might be overly generous to attribute any of the soldering to Ahmed. Even if he did its still not fair for him to say ‘I invented that’, but I don’t think he did even that much.

    Have you seen the pictures of him holding a soldering iron up to another gutted appliance? He holds it like a knife, with his hand on the heating element, stabbing at the board. He’s holding the board he’s ‘soldering’ at an angle so the hot solder would be prone to run right off the board and into his hand ‘downhill’. It’s obviously a staged photo but what it indicates to me is the boy does not know how to use (or even safely hold onto) a soldering iron.

  • TaiFood

    CAUTION: Do NOT plug in an extension of the house electricity to wires meant for lower power DC (or even step down AC) voltage (what comes out of the plug-in as a big POP and potential fire and lethal shock hazard exists. It is not too far from putting a fork into the wall outlet)

    The video you posted shows the OUTPUT of an AC to DC converter : AC (wall electrical outlet ) to DC (battery power level input) converter (the plug-in)

    Converts house electricity to whatever the output voltage (usually DC or battery compatible voltage). This oversimplification could turn HAZARDOUS very easily.

    The use of a light bulb gives the kid in the video a lot of leeway since the DC voltage could light up most bulbs BUT that does NOT mean the wires are interchangeable for other converters or worse AC transformers.)

    The small print text on the plug-in transformer is very important.

    CAUTION: BARE WIRES…Do NOT plug in an extension of the house electricity to wires meant for lower power DC (or even step down AC) voltage (what comes out of the plug-in as a big POP and potential fire and lethal shock hazard exists. It is not too far from putting a fork into the wall outlet)

  • curiouserandcuriouser

    Perhaps someday someone will ask Ahmed to elaborate on what he means when he says that he built his clock from parts. Pretty simple question to ask him, yet no one ever does. He mumbles incoherently when asked about his other projects. I think we can all agree that he could not assemble a working device from separate parts in 20 minutes. Unfortunately I do not think this will ever happen. I am sure that his handlers vet any questions that he is asked at this point. There is too much to lose for too many. In two weeks, he will be at the White House. Will the President greet him and view his clock?. Not a chance. I also have to believe the Irving police dept have forensically examined every inch of that device which would be prudent in light of Ahmed’s threat to sue the dept.

  • witnesstothecarnage

    Yes, he could have… in fact, that would have made it much less of a shock hazard.

    Hang on to those “wall wart” transformers, at least for the next tinkerer you meet. You never know when they’ll come in handy.

  • Jill Pearson

    Personally, I don’t think he soldered anything. It’s probably one of the reasons the family hasn’t been so quick to pick up the thing from the police station. People will want to examine it. But I don’t think the one photo we have of his device is high resolution enough to tell for sure. I’m trying to find out what anyone COULD have done in 10 or 20 minutes. Could he have attached the LED display to the ribbon in 20 minutes? And if so, would it work if it was meant for a different device? Could he have attached the transformer in 20 minutes? If so, would a real electronics hobbiest have found it just as easy, quick and simple and a lot safer to use batteries or wall wart? And if so, what I would really like is for someone who knows how to do these things to post a quick video showing how to remove the transformer from such a clock and make it run on batteries or a wall wart.

  • Algoria

    White supremacy? It’s so easy for liberals to get away with calling people racists in this emotionally charged political atmosphere. A commenter at Wonkette called you a racist merely because you questioned some of the hype around the “cool clock.” So are you a racist?

    http://www.pewforum.org/2012/11/07/how-the-faithful-voted-2012-preliminary-exit-poll-analysis/

    In 2004, 32% of white Christians voted for John Kerry and 67% for George Bush. Both claimed to be Christians and both are white.

    In 2008, 34% of white Christians voted for Barack Obama and 65% voted for John McCain. Both claimed to be Christians but Obama, who is half African and half Caucasian, identifies as black.

    Where is the racism?

    In 2012 even after Obama revealed that he had been lying all along about his belief that marriage “could only extend to heterosexual couples”, he still got 30% of the white Christian vote as opposed to Romney’s 69%.

    (Obama’s former chief political strategist, David) “Axelrod writes that he knew Obama was in favor of same-sex marriages during the first presidential campaign, even as Obama publicly said he only supported civil unions, not full marriages. Axelrod also admits to counseling Obama to conceal that position for political reasons.”
    TIME Magazine, Axelrod: Obama Misled Nation When He Opposed Gay Marriage In 2008
    http://time.com/3702584/gay-marriage-axelrod-obama/

    It’s religious, social, cultural and economic issues that motivate most Christians, not racism.

  • Dave

    Something I haven’t seen mentioned… The circuit board has a green coating, that’s a solder mask typically used in mass produced pre-assembled circuit boards. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solder_mask
    Another thing… I took two years of electronics in High School in the 1970’s, we built A/C and D/C circuits. If I had tried to pass this thing off as being built/invented/assembled by me, I would have been laughed out of the class with a failing grade.

  • ProfElwood

    Does anyone edit Wikipedia? They have an article, but the reaction area doesn’t include anything about the commercial origin of the clock.

  • curiouserandcuriouser

    @

  • curiouserandcuriouser

    &

  • curiouserandcuriouser

    Ahmed: in middle school, they called me bomb maker.
    Ahmed: in order to make it look less suspicious and less of a threat, I used a cable to latch the case.
    Ahmed: the first teacher I showed it to said it looked like a bomb and told me not to show it again to anyone.
    Ahmed: after that, during class, I plugged it in and set off the alarm.

    Mr. President, do we really need more kids like Ahmed?

  • ProfElwood

    I missed this one, but Dallas Morning News (who originally broke the story) threw some FUD on the matter here:

    http://www.dallasnews.com/news/community-news/northwest-dallas-county/headlines/20150922-craze-over-teen-clockmaker-from-irving-shifts-from-celebrity-to-conspiracy.ece

    “Most of these theories cite no evidence, many contradict each other and some clash with known facts — like a statement from Irving City Hall that the MacArthur High freshman never intended to frighten anyone with his circuit-stuffed pencil case.”

    Contradict each other? When several witnesses have different versions of the same event, then conflict in their stories can cast doubt on their witness. Analysis based on the same evidence, however, isn’t affected by other people’s offerings.
    ————————–
    “Fraudulent clock theory

    The same Facebook post claimed that Ahmed didn’t really make a clock, but merely reassembled the components of a store-bought clock inside a case. Other posts and YouTube videos have advanced this theory.

    Ahmed’s clock is still in police custody, according to the family. But last week the boy told The News that he spent just 20 minutes soldering a digital display to a circuit board and power supply, which he put inside a pencil case. His description matched a photo of the clock that police later released.”

    Except, of course, there’s no indication that he soldered anything. The photo still doesn’t back up his story.

  • curiouserandcuriouser

    Something is troubling me about this article, and it’s an issue I have not seen raised. The author writes that the eBay listing of the Micronta 63-765 was up at the time of his writing of the article. If by up, he means for sale, why did he not buy it, and use the actual clock rather than eBay photos? That clock was offered on a buy it now listing for 29.95. The author could have purchased it right then, and confirmed his theory with the actual item. In the day after, two other identical clocks were sold that the author could have purchased. I do not buy Ahmed’s narrative, but I think it’s incumbent on the author to prove his theory. This occurred to me as I myself bid on eBay for this model. Why am I bidding I ask myself— This is the author’s theory to prove, and he should do so. Relying on eBay photos when you have the best evidence available to you is troubling to me. The more I think about it, the more it bothers me. While the author’s theory may be correct, I am amazed that this issue has not been raised. Of course, maybe in the 13,000 prior comments it has. While I have been on board with the theory of the guts in a box, and Ive railed against Ahmed as a provocateur, and tend to think of it still in those terms, after all my criticism of other lack of investigatory steps by others, this one appears glaring, and I would be a hypocrite to let it slide.

  • Ichabod Crain

    “Last week the boy told The News that he spent just 20 minutes soldering a digital display to a circuit board and power supply, which he put inside a pencil case. His description matched a photo of the clock that police later released.”

    The digital display is obviously connected to the circuit board by a ribbon cable. It is also obviously the manufacturer’s original part, since it matches up perfectly with the solder pads on the circuit board and the display. If you had to solder even just one end of the ribbon cable, it could be a bit tricky even for a professional. Soldering those 30 joints would take the whole 20 minutes allotted for the entire project. Not only that but it appears that ribbon cable was attached to the PC board by a wave soldering machine, something only found on the production line. Those solder joints are perfectly uniform and there is no evidence of resoldering whatsoever.

    Ahmed wants to imply perhaps that he found a circuit board somewhere and attached a digital display from somewhere else and thereby assembled the clock from parts lying around his house. Only that doesn’t hold water. We would have to imagine he had two of these exact same digital clocks, because you couldn’t so simply match up the digital displays from different clocks.

    Even if he did have two of these clocks, it would take a considerable amount of time to transfer the display from one clock to the other. Desoldering the display would make a good mess of the ribbon cable, since you cannot desolder all the joints at once. You would have to rip each little wire from the ribbon cable a bit to separate it from the heated joint, because as you can see, there is no room to maneuver., A look at the image, however, shows the ribbon cable unperturbed in such a manner.

    Back when I did electronic repairs for a living, it would at least have taken an hour or two (and I wouldn’t even have attempt it because it would not be worth the cost of a replacement clock.) In the end, there would be no way to hide the fact that the display had been resoldered to the board, in spite of my enormous experience with soldering. However you look at it, Ahmed’s nose just keeps on growing longer. There is no way “his description matched a photo of the clock”.

  • Ichabod Crain

    “Mohamed [the father] was once in the national news for trying to convince a pastor who burned a Quran that true Islam is peaceful.”

    How do you convince anyone that “true Islam is peaceful”? The Quran is nothing but a warrior’s code, written by a warlord and his gang of cutthroats who raided and plundered caravans for a living, and who within his lifetime conquered all of the Arabian Peninsula.

    Within a decade of Muhammad’s death Muslims conquered Mesopotamia, Byzantine Syria, Byzantine Egypt, large parts of Persia, and established the Rashidun Caliphate. On it went from there all through history – a story of rape and pillage and plunder that continues to this very day on various parts of our planet.

    Sure, Islam is peaceful – for its perpetrators, once they have killed off or enslaved the dissenters, but it would be disingenuous to make such a statement as “true Islam is peaceful”.

  • Jester
  • Jester

    The Dallas Morning news is a globalist propaganda rag. They deleted links to my little summary of Ahmed and his so-called clock from the comment section to one of their “We Love Ahmed” puff pieces.

    And by the way, another blatant lie from Mohamed El Hassan Mohamed.

    The teen has never been in trouble, the father said, saying he thinks this is a case of Islamophobia.”

    http://www.cnn.com/2015/09/16/us/texas-student-ahmed-muslim-clock-bomb/

  • Ichabod Crain

    I have read the evidence that there is no independent historical collaboration that Muhammad ever existed, and have watched a good documentary on the subject. It really makes you think. However, the story of Muhammad and his band of merry men has had as powerful an influence as it would have had if it was real, unfortunately for the victims of Islam.

  • ProfElwood

    Well, you are talking about a kid that can solder CPUs. I’m sure a ribbon cable would be a cake walk against skilz like that.

  • SteveC

    Then what was the motivation, considering your own spelling wasn’t perfect? You were not motivated from a place of perfection, for sure. So, what was it?

  • Christopher Flores

    Not everyone, but it does help your argument to ignore tgat detail.

  • Christopher Flores

    Have you seen him inviting whites who were arrested for bringing disassembled clocks to school, fucking jackass.

  • Christopher Flores

    You’re an idiot. White supremasicts kill twice as many people as extremist muslims. Wgo’s the bigger threat? Imbecile.

  • Christopher Flores

    WhaT a crock. Just admit you hate muslim people. As it is only 20% of muslims are middle eastern. May your God forgive your wanton stupidity.

  • Christopher Flores

    No, I’m not. But you’re very keen about anything that helps your argument. No matter how transparent.

  • Christopher Flores

    Stop being an idiotic racist who can’t hide his blatant hate of all things unfamiliar.

  • Christopher Flores

    All the dismissive insult you have won’t change the fact that you’re a frightened little boy who can’t be botgered to quell his fears by picking up a book.

  • Daily Gut Check

    You mad, bro?

    LOL! Nice projection. And great imagination too… the fetid BS just flows from your brain. Not only do I read a tremendous amount of books, on a variety of subjects, every week, but I am involved in any number of tech and skill related occupations and trades.

  • Daily Gut Check

    Yes, I am very keen about the truth. You know what you are and I know what you are… and it’s nothing to be proud about.

    Just wondering… are you going to publish your manifesto online? Planning on dying your hair bright “clown orange”?

  • Daily Gut Check

    “WhaT a crock”? Really? Which part?

    Yes, I know to you mentally ill Leftists that truth is often viewed as “a crock” because it completely defies the lies you live, believe yourselves, and propagate. But it is still truth.

    Just admit it… most Muslims are intolerant, violent people, their behavior being largely incompatible with modern civilization and the majority of world-wide skirmishes currently going on are originated by muslims.

    Admit it.. you hate America.

  • Daily Gut Check

    So you admit you are a Leftist, lying clown?

    Incidentally, “muslim” is not a race, so being very wary of intolerant, violent, extremists, who desire to conquer the world, such as muslims, does not make me “racist”… such is impossible.

    Duhhhhh!

    Not only are you a Leftist liar in the eternal victimhood class, you are a stupid one.

    Don’t you have better things to do than lose an argument to me… like, mutilating women’s genitals in the name of Allah? Or was that done to you already?

  • http://artvoice.com/ Artvoice Webmaster

    OK everyone, closing this thread down – after almost 3 weeks and over 13,000 comments I’d say this has pretty much run its course. The ongoing moderation has become a bit of a nuisance, seeing as the only discussion still going off is pretty far off the tracks at this point. Thank you to everyone for participating in the discussion, and the comments here will remain viewable.