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Internationally Recognized Speaker in Town: Local Media Reports on Snowpile Heights

Filed under: Activism, Events

NWFlyer_FinalDraft RWB

 Mahatma Ghandi said the greatness of a nation can be judged by how it treats its animals.    In this coutry, at least 4 million cats and dogs are killed by shelters annually.     I guess we could be greater.    Nathan Winograd says he has a better way.

Nathan J. Winograd, is a world expert, author, lecturer, advocate and spokesperson for the “No Kill” movement.    Winograd is the Director of the national No Kill Advocacy Center.   He is a graduate of Stanford Law School, a former criminal prosecutor and attorney, and held a variety of leadership positions including director of operations and executive director of two of the most successful shelters in the nation.   He has spoken nationally and internationally on animal sheltering issues, has written animal protection legislation at the state and national level, has created successful No Kill programs in both urban and rural communities, and has consulted with a wide range of animal protection groups including some of the largest and best known in the world.

Further information is available at http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/ and http://www.nathanwinograd.com/   

Winograd is producing a documentary movie which is to be released this year.  The trailer may be viewed at http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/shelter-reform/no-kill-documentary/

As you can see, he’ll be in Buffalo on Sunday.     But other than a tiny note in the BNews , you would never know it.      The local news sleuths have been too busy reporting on the height of snow piles in shopping mall parking lots.


  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Nina-Schipperke/100002776368647 Nina Schipperke

    Nathan Winograd is a world expert on bupkis.
    Nathan Winograd lies about the overwhelming overpopulation crisis of  homeless cats and dogs.
    He says there is no crisis.
    Nathan Winograd purposefully pits rescuer against rescuer, shelter against shelter, animal-lover against animal-lover.
    Animals dying needlessly in shelters need a LEADER, not a truth-abuser.
    Animals dying needlessly in shelters need a LEADER, not  a quarrel-monger.
    Healthy adoptable cats and dogs dying like flies in the streets and in crowded  under-funded shelters need a voice. a responsible  leader, a person who unites, who does not divide.
    Nathan Winograd is not that person.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=680981166 Julie Eyrich

    When listening to Nathan Winograd, who is a ‘suffering apologist’ for companion animals, be careful, because he never properly tells the whole story and leaves out important facts that mislead the animal lover on purpose, to come to the wrong conclusion. He spends an exorbitant amount of time and energy spreading malicious hearsay about PetA, HSUS, ASPCA that would not hold up in a court of law because of lack of important details, lack of sufficient evidence & no sources cited that would prove his case. It’s not helping shelters become no-kill. There is something very ‘warped’ with a person’s mind when making accusations that people want healthy pets killed.

    Nathan Winograd states that pet overpopulation is a myth. He likes to use the faulty, misleading & not detailed enough Ad Council study. When he states there is 23 million people that acquire a pet in a year isn’t specific to ‘pet’ type, could mean: fish, bird, reptile, hamster, gerbil, ferret, kitten, cat, puppy, dog. The study states 17 million people want to acquire a pet, doesn’t mean people necessarily want to adopt their pet from a shelter. You cannot credibly equate ‘considering acquiring a pet’ with actual results. And more importantly, you certainly cannot apply those numbers to animals in shelters. You would need to know a) the approximate conversion of those ‘considering’ that turn into actual pet owners, b) where people get animals (i.e. breeder, pet store, friend, shelter or other). There’s over 70 million strays in America that are fending for themselves. Most people active in rescue, know that there’s a pet overpopulation crisis. http://www.oxfordpets.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=61

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Nina-Schipperke/100002776368647 Nina Schipperke

      Every single person who disputes Winograd’s magic numbers is blocked, banned and labeled a ‘killing-apologist’ or a ‘willing murderer”.
      In Winograd’s World there is no debate.
      Regardless that you have been rescuing dogs or cats all your life, regardless that you have a house-full of ‘throw-away ‘animals, regardless that every extra nickel you have goes to the rescues in your care,  Lord help you if you dare to dispute Nathan.
      Because if you DO dispute Winograd’s illucid fairytales, you just got no reason for livin’.

  • NKBN

    PETA’s shelter in Virginia killed 97% of the animals they took in last year.  While it is easy to claim it is made up, their stats are public as required by Virginia state law.  So “malicious hearsay” does not apply here.  http://www.vi.virginia.gov/vdacs_ar/cgi-bin/Vdacs_search.cgi?link_select=facility&form=fac_select&fac_num=157&year=2012.

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=680981166 Julie Eyrich

      PeTA isn’t a “shelter” for rehoming pets. If someone brings an animal to be rehomed, PETA refers them to the local No-kill Norfolk SPCA. PETA never intakes those animals so they are not counted as part of the statistics. Nearly every animal PeTA receives is an owner-surrendered animal for the purpose of humane, medical euthanasia because the animal is injured, sick, or dying. PETA makes these people sign a waiver stating they know the animal will be euthanized. In most cases, these are low income people with sick pets who cannot afford to take their pet to a veterinarian. PETA allows these people to be with their pets and provides this service for free. In fact, the state of Virginia requires PeTA (and all animal reporting facilities) to keep both animal and owner information on file for a period of two years, during which time, anyone who has a complaint regarding the handling of their animal can ask for an investigation. Now, if PeTA was really duping unsuspecting people into believing their pet will be offered for adoption, where are all of the complaints? http://www.whypetaeuthanizes.com/index.html

      • NKBN

         Perhaps you should look up the court transcripts where testimony was given by a veterinarian that the animals transferred to the PETA shelter were healthy and adoptable.  http://www.roanoke-chowannewsherald.com/2007/01/24/testimony-underway-in-peta-trial/

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=680981166 Julie Eyrich

        The PeTA dumpster incident was ONE TIME & was 9 years ago. Why does Winograd keep constantly bringing up an incident that happened 9 years ago? Is this the most supposedly current wrong doing he has on PeTA? PeTA wasn’t even a defendant in the case. The PeTA volunteers that were involved were let go. How is this helping shelters become no-kill? Here’s All the FACTS about the dumpster incident:http://www.whypetaeuthanizes.com/the-infamous-north-carolina-court-case.html

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Hp-Morgan/100002566196204 H.p. Morgan

        I think you need to read those transcripts instead of quoting Winograd. First of all, PeTA was never charged and the case didn’t stick anyway.

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100004909693996 Lorraine Miller

        PETA workers were charged. And they went to court.

      • Anon

        Ingrid Newkirk has admitted that PETA kills adoptable animals and the Commonwealth confirmed PETA’s status as a shelter. Try another lie Julie, that one is getting old.

    • http://www.facebook.com/susanjwillard Susan Willard

      It is a lie by omission NKBN.  The animals that PETA euthanizes are owner surrenders for the purpose of euthanasia.  The owners are those who cannot afford the fees that vets charge for euthanasia.  PETA will provide those needy families with that service.  Tell another one, NKBN.  Nevermind, I’m sure you will.

      • Anon

        Proof please? Oh wait, neither you nor PETA can prove it. As a matter of fact PETA has admitted to killing adoptable animals.

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Nina-Schipperke/100002776368647 Nina Schipperke

      Oh for God’s sake get a life.
      This has nothing to do with PETA.

  • NKBN

    There are over 90 No Kill shelters & communities in the US, so the argument that the No Kill Equation does not work has already been proven to be false.  Washoe County, NV has reached it, Austin, TX has reached it, Niagara County, NY has reached it, Boulder, Co has reached it, Duluth, MN has reached it.  The list goes on and on.  The No Kill Equation is about life-saving programs, common sense programs that save the lives of companion animals.  While there are those that claim it doesn’t work, there is absolute proof that it does:

    1. Feral Cat TNR Program

    2. High-Volume, Low-Cost Spay/Neuter

    3. Rescue Groups

    4. Foster Care

    5. Comprehensive Adoption Programs

    6. Pet Retention

    7. Medical and Behavior Programs

    8. Public Relations/Community Involvement

    9. Volunteers

    10. Proactive Redemptions

    11. A Compassionate Director

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=680981166 Julie Eyrich

      I support no-kill of healthy homeless animals, the no-kill equation and have fostered over 80 animals that have homes now. BUT there are side effects that Nathan Winograd denies that happens that still needs to be worked out: 1)Homeless animals can end up in a hoarding rescue or warehoused, then the animals can experience neglect, lack of socialization & lack of medical attention, or experience depression or go insane being caged. 2) No-Kill shelters are usually more than FULL and have a long waiting list. 90 no-kill shelters out a total of 5,0000 animal shelters in the US is not proof that it’s working.

      • Anon

        And yet animals can find themselves abused, neglected, lack of medical attention, and other problems in kill shelters as well. But I don’t see you complaining about that. Why not Julie?

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Nina-Schipperke/100002776368647 Nina Schipperke

      No one said ‘it can’t work’.
      Stop making things up.
      Are you 12?
      No-kill shelters have been around since before Nathan Winograd hijacked the idea for his own questionable purposes.There are at least five no-kill shelters within driving distance of my front door.They have been there for YEARS.Not one of them mentions  Nathan Winograd.They are too busy dealing with the massive overpopulation of dumped abused and homeless cats and dogs to bother with nonsense.

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Hp-Morgan/100002566196204 H.p. Morgan

      Look at those so called shelters. Limited admission, and low intakes, small communities are the ones mostly making that list. Rancho Cucamonga bought into his program, spent millions trying to make it work, no limits on money, and still haven’t been able to make it work since 06. That’s the shelter Winograd doesn’t want you to know about. http://www.opposingviews.com/i/society/animal-rights/breeders-are-now-using-no-kill-movement-personal-gain

  • http://www.facebook.com/tutzauerc Carol Tutzauer

    As a community, we are privileged to have Nathan Winograd come to speak on the ideas he has promoted for years. How can you object to the following programs, all designed to save the lives of companion animals killed in our nation’s shelters:

    1. Trap-Neuter-Vaccinate-Return programs for free-roaming community cats.
    2. High-volume, low- or no-cost spay/neuter programs
    3. Rescue groups, for moving animals out of shelters
    4. Foster care, especially for animals with special needs
    5. Comprehensive adoption programs (you CAN adopt your way out of killing)
    6. Pet retention programs, to help people keep their pets rather than giving them up
    7. Medical and behavior programs, to ensure that every animal gets the treatment and enrichment it needs
    8. Public relations/community involvement, because the public WILL step up to help IF you let them know
    9. Volunteers, without whose labor we couldn’t do all we must on the animals’ behalf
    10. Proactive redemptions, to ensure that as many lost animals find their ways home as is possible
    AND
    11. A compassionate director, who takes killing off the table and asks, “What instead?”

    Today, following the work of Winograd, over 90 communities are saving in excess of 90% of shelter animals. Communites that are rich/poor, rural/urban, North/South. Shelters that are open-admission/closed admission, private/municipal, large/small. These communities belie the naysayers.

    No Kill is real. It is the future. And one day our children will look to us and ask: “You mean, they used to KILL animals in shelters? I thought they were supposed to protect them.”

    Join those who are looking toward a better future for our companion animals. Even if you are skeptical, come listen and judge for yourself. Talk to others who are making it happen right here, right now, in YOUR own community.

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Hp-Morgan/100002566196204 H.p. Morgan

      Answer one question. How much money does NK put into busting the cruelty of puppy mills? How much money does NK put into helping during disasters? How much money does NK give in grants for spay/neuter? The answer is NOTHING, NOT ONE RED CENT.  You have a man who runs his mouth but doesn’t do anything else. He stood with the breeders in CA against mandatory spay/neuter. He stood with the breeders against laws pertaining to the cruel puppy mills. You never hear him going against the breeders because they are his backers. NK was created for breeders and you are foolish enough to think it is saving lives? Look at Spindletop, Boggs Mountain, all scams because of NK. http://www.opposingviews.com/i/society/animal-rights/no-kill-movement-savior-or-scam

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100004099843775 Mia Russell

         Pat where do you come up with this stuff?? Seriously, do you dream your facts up out of nowhere? Also let me say, using your friend Julie’s logic, spidletop was ONE INCIDENT. But far from defending, I think anyone and everyone in no kill  was shocked and horrified to find out what had happened. I don’t see any of us defending abuse the way you and your friends seem happy too.

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Nina-Schipperke/100002776368647 Nina Schipperke

      We got no problems with no-kill.
      We got problems with Winograd.
      Life-saving No-kill shelters were around LONG  before Winograd was workin’ in a prosecutor’s office.
      Hopefully they will be around long after Nate goes back to busting stoners, or whatever he used to do.
      God willing some day we will advance to the point where few..if any..adoptable animals are euthanized for lack of funds or space.
      We’d get there a lot faster if Winograd would step off the bus.
      The rescue community does not need fairytales and magic math.
      The rescue community does not need contention and division.
      Why Nathan Winograd feels the need to divide  us is anyone’s guess.

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100004099843775 Mia Russell

         Another lie. You and your friends spend all your time opposing and fighting no kill.

      • Anon

        Good God! The first true thing I have ever seen Terry post 

        “Life-saving No-kill shelters were around LONG  before Winograd was workin’ in a prosecutor’s office.”

        Yes, no-kill shelters have been around for sometime now. But thank’s to people like Nathan, more and more shelters and entire communities have joined in the ending of killing adoptable shelter pets.  Over the last year the list of no-kill communities has doubled.

  • http://www.facebook.com/susanjwillard Susan Willard

    No Kill shelters only work for those shelters who allow themselves the luxury of turning away the diseased, the old, the aggressive, IOW the unadoptable.  That is a luxury that those shelters Winograd blasts, the truly open admission, overwhelmed and underfunded municipal and county shelters who are mandated to take in whatever comes through their door, don’t have.  Investigation of the admission policies of the NK shelters Winograd touts as NK shows that NK shelters limit their admission and that the costs of NK shelters to the animals who are left on the streets, the public safety and health of the community and the drain upon the limited funds with which communities operate is staggering.

    • http://www.facebook.com/tutzauerc Carol Tutzauer

      Not so. Washoe County Regional Animal Services and Nevada Humane Society take in everything, period: http://www.examiner.com/article/reno-leads-the-pack

      Another example is Seagoville, TX: http://pawsitivelytexas.com/seagoville-animal-shelter/

      And there are more and more and more: http://www.no-killnews.com/?p=4507

      • http://www.facebook.com/susanjwillard Susan Willard

        http://www.facebook.com/pages/Truthfully-Reporting-No-Kill-Admission-Policies/273228149455991?fref=ts

        Using Winograd’s NK sites as credible sources is not useful or valid.

      • Damifino

        But using Pat’s various blogs and twisted facts she posts on Opposing Views is?

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=541538876 Lucy Van Pelt

         LOL, any sane person who happens upon Pat’s blog can see pretty darn fast that the woman is certifiable *NUTS*!

        And yet, her and her little stalker friends still refer others to it.  I think it’s great!  Go right ahead and go and read the crazy woman’s blog, don’t take my words for it, see for yourself!  LOL

        They are their own worst enemies.  Stupid, stalking, creepy, trolling, weird…..and I’d add dumb, but that’s redundant and Julie doesn’t know how to spell it so she would have to look it up! 

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=541538876 Lucy Van Pelt

         Hey, speaking of crazy people’s blogs, what happened to DeSgusto’s blogs?  REMOVED FROM GOOGLE

        Watch it, Pat, you might just be next.  Whatever will you do with your time without your insane blogs, Pat?  LOL

    • NKBN

       Washoe Animal Services is animal control and does not turn away any animal.  So is Town Lake Animal Center in Austin, TX as is Niagara County, NY & Tompkins Co, NY. 

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Hp-Morgan/100002566196204 H.p. Morgan

        Obviously you don’t know much about those sources or you would be too ashamed to use them to back up your argument. Have you bothered to see their euthanization rates? How about using PACCA in Philly as the prime example of how NK doesn’t work. On the verge of having cruelty charges filed against Winograd’s hand picked management staff, the contract was taken away almost overnight. Austin has more news stories on their overcrowding than anything else. And check again, they are turning people away. 

      • http://www.facebook.com/tutzauerc Carol Tutzauer

        Austin has been maintaining their 90% plus raw live save rate, though it has been difficult, in part because (against advice) they built their new shelter where no one can get to it.

        Winograd doesn’t micromanage communities, and expects them to resolve their own growing pains. This is old (and distorted) news regarding Philly. It’s a new day: http://www.philadelphiaweekly.com/news-and-opinion/news/144429685.html. One hopes they have turned the corner.

        What would you suggest as the alternative? A return to “adopt a few; kill the rest”? 

      • http://www.facebook.com/susanjwillard Susan Willard

        Austin shipped animals to Spindletop.  Nuff said.

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Nina-Schipperke/100002776368647 Nina Schipperke

        So anyone who doesn’t goose-step to Winograd’s fairytale  manifesto is just a pro-killer, huh Carol?
        Disagreeing with YOU makes everyone a ‘murderer’ of dogs and cats.

        Please tell me when God died and left Winograd in charge.

        We would suggest a return to the original rational sane cooperative & life-saving model of No-kill which existed LONG before Nathan Winograd plunked his magic twanger and decided to co-op the whole idea for his own self.

      • http://www.facebook.com/susanjwillard Susan Willard

        Town Lake in Austin shipped out animals without a moments hesitation to the deadly Spindletop.  How much suffering did those dogs that Town Lake passed the buck on, go through.  The reports of the mess Winograd made in Thompkins Co., NY are out there if anyone cares to look.

  • NKBN

    Also on hand for the informational fair prior to the event will be:

    1. Fix-a-Bull
    2. Community Cats ALIVE!
    3. Operation PETS
    4. Niagara SPCA
    5. No Kill Buffalo-Niagara
    6. No Kill St. Catherines
    7. Rabbit Rescue Society
    8. Canine Academy

    The cocktail reception includes vegan snacks and a hosted bar with beer, wine, soft drinks and bottled water

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100004909693996 Lorraine Miller

    The leading organizations who ought to be fighting on behalf of animals do not serve their interests. PETA feels that pets live miserable existences in captivity and they are best killed. This is documented in official state documents in Virginia regarding their “shelter.” HSUS uses stories from unaffiliated “humane societies” to feed on people’s emotions to raise money. Yet, all they do is pay for bloated salaries and fringe benefits for an executive staff that is far too large and does far too little. Almost NONE of your donation directly helps animals. In fact, HSUS swoops in to “rescue” animals, then turns around and “distributes” them to kill shelters. ASPCA isn’t much better. In fact, if you want to talk cherry-picking, ASPCA would be a poster child, sending anything else to NYC Animal Care and Control. In a city the size of NYC, ASPCA handles a token 3,000 animals. Considering the millions the rake in with their Sarah MacLachlan commercial, those may be the most expensive cared-for shelter animals around.

    Read Nathan Winograd’s new book, Friendly Fire. Eye-opening. In fact, it may still be available for free download from Amazon.com.

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=680981166 Julie Eyrich

      I think 1% is fair for HSUS to donate to shelters– when over 99% of cruelty to animals in the United States occurs at the hands of the meat, dairy, and egg industries – which confine, torture, mutilate, and slaughter 9 BILLION animals each year, compared to (8 million animals that entershelters a year) http://www.meatvideo.com I just saw a HSUS Ad. It showed a baby seal about to be clubbed for its fur, a downed dairy cow that was being pushed by a tractor to slaughter, a puppy mill raid, a dog fighting raid and a disaster relief rescue for companion animals. HSUS is about ALL Animals and their commercials are not misleading unless you’re an idiot. In 2012, the HSUS provided direct care or help to more than 100,000 animals – their biggest total ever http://hsus.typepad.com/wayne/2013/01/hsus-direct-care-for-animals.html

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=541538876 Lucy Van Pelt

         OH do you really, Julie?  You think that 1% is fair???  You ever hear the term, “Useful Idiot”?  Look it up, you might find your picture next to the words.

      • Anon

        So its fair to use dogs and cats in 84% of their advertisements begging for money to help the puppies and kittens but then turn around and use less then 1% of the donations on those animals. It isn’t fair, it’s fraud, a scam, deceptive, and unethical. 

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=541538876 Lucy Van Pelt

         But Julie thinks that’s fair……And we all know how *smart* Julie is….LOL
        I’m having too much fun today, I need to stop.

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=680981166 Julie Eyrich

      ‘Pets for Life” is a program of HSUS to prevent shelter overpopulation, reduce animal suffering, and promote veterinary care. It improves the lives of not just animals, but the people who care for them in under-served communities. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4u1kE8IOo7o&feature=player_embedded#!  HSUS operates 6 Animal Sanctuaries: http://www.humanesociety.org/animal_community/shelters/animal_care_centers.html

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=680981166 Julie Eyrich

      My Book Review: Nathan Winograd’s latest book ‘Friendly Fire’ is written like the ‘National Enquire’, mostly ‘hearsay’. Nathan Winograd makes general malicious accusations about the national groups that would not hold up in a court of law because of lack of important details, lack of sufficient evidence & no sources cited that would prove his case. Again he pushes there is enough GOOD homes for shelter animals. I’m dumfounded that people think he has proven his accusations against the national groups: PeTA, HSUS, ASPCA.

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=541538876 Lucy Van Pelt

         OH look, Gump wrote a book review.  How cute.  She even attempts to use some big words she doesn’t understand or know how to spell. 
        You can’t ask for better adversaries than the GUMPS….

      • Anon

        It must not have been on amazon because her review its not there, lol

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=541538876 Lucy Van Pelt

         Anon, that was quite the review, don’t you think?  LOL  Maybe it’s over at Nick Junior’s website……

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=541538876 Lucy Van Pelt

         LOL, you are “dumfounded”  LMAO  You can’t make this stuff up people!  LOL
        Yes, Julie, you are DUMB, that part is true, even though you can’t spell it.

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100004099843775 Mia Russell

        How ironic, she misspells “DUMB” #FAIL
         

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=541538876 Lucy Van Pelt

         and hysterical!  You can’t make this stuff up! 

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Nina-Schipperke/100002776368647 Nina Schipperke

      This has nothing to do with PETA.
      More Humanewatch nonsense.
      Why anyone  who claims to love animals would repeat nonsense coming directly from Richard Berman, the most notorious animal-abuse apologist in modern history, is beyond logic.
      Anyone who drags the worn-out PETA canard into this discussion proves they have no argument of any value whatsoever.

      And thank you, no.
      After 10 pages of Friendly Fire I would rather stick hot pokers in my eyes than read the rest.
      I would have returned it to Amazon but the pages have come in handy for picking up dog-poop.

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=541538876 Lucy Van Pelt

         Please don’t let us stop you Terry, maybe then you wouldn’t be able to see the keyboard anymore and we could have a well deserved break from your stalking.

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Nina-Schipperke/100002776368647 Nina Schipperke

        Ah Lucy, in order to stalk someone you must care about them first.
        I assure you I don’t

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100004099843775 Mia Russell

         Nina I am not sure where you and your friends got the idea that Nathan and humanewatch are connected.  I really am not. You and your friends seem to dream up facts from nowhere

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=541538876 Lucy Van Pelt

         Eh, they just figure that if they repeat the lie enough times, some poor schmuck will believe it, and then join their merry little band of malcontents! 
        Julie is a good example, I think.  Not too bright.

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Nina-Schipperke/100002776368647 Nina Schipperke

        Possibly because there are links to Winograd’s Amazon page on Rick Berman’s websites?

      • Anon

        I see ASPCA links advertised on this page, does that mean the ASPCA supports this blog? 

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=584196512 Jonathan Gilbert

    Maybe someone can explain to me how Animal Ark , the shining star of Nathans buddy Mike Fry in Hastings MN , has a 3 month wait list pending evaluation.

  • http://www.facebook.com/susanjwillard Susan Willard

    From the Austin Pet’s Alive website.

    Unfortunately, we do not take animals from the public. We pull straight from the kill list at the Austin Animal Center and we are the last chance for the pets on that list. For each animal we would take from the public that is one more pet that has to die in the shelter.

    • NKBN

      That is true, Town Lake Animal Center in Austin takes owner surrenders
      and Austin Pets ALIVE takes them from TLAC.   TLAC also has a raw save
      rate of over 90% in the last year since implementing the programs
      outlined by the No Kill Equation

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=680981166 Julie Eyrich

    The PeTA dumpster incident was one time & was 9 years ago.  PeTA wasn’t even a defendant in the case. The PeTA volunteers that were involved were let go. Would  How is this helping shelters become no-kill? Here’s All the FACTS about the dumpster
    incident: http://www.whypetaeuthanizes.com/the-infamous-north-carolina-court-case.html
    http://www.whypetaeuthanizes.com/the-infamous-north-carolina-court-case.html

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=541538876 Lucy Van Pelt

       OH look, the head Gump is here.  I came to say hello Julie, I’ve gotten a lot of screenshots of your conversations about me lately.  I feel so popular.  I’m flattered really, but why don’t you go and color someone’s hair?  BTW, does your salon use ONLY certified NON CRUELTY products?  Will you provide us with a inventory please, I’d like to confirm that it does.  Othewise, I think a boycott of your salon is in order.

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100004099843775 Mia Russell

       Julie you are a very sick, sick woman. You seem to spend all your time defending and apologizing for PETA’s killing, why?
      First: I LOVE that you use the defense “it was ONE time 9 yearsago.” Regardless, it was a disgusting act of abuse and disregard from them that was not the exception but rather the rule for how they treat and feel about cats and dogs. You state that there are no facts, Julie, Julie Julie, you know that’s not true Here’s one article, do I need to go on? http://www.roanoke-chowannewsherald.com/2005/06/30/dumping-cases-are-similar/
      Next: PETA supports breed bans and does not believe that pit bulls have the right to live. They oppose life saving measures such as TNR, and advise people on their own site to bring feral cats in to be destroyed. Seriously, what kind of sick person goes around defending them and their actions, and then is callous enough to shrug it off with “it happened one time a long time ago”
      I certainly hope you’re on their payroll

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=541538876 Lucy Van Pelt

         Did Julie post her Torture Porn again?  Sick little twit. 

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=584196512 Jonathan Gilbert

    Hmmm, just called Austin Pets Alive surreender animals -512-961-6433 and they DO NOT take animals from the public. PLease explain?

    • NKBN

      That is true, Town Lake Animal Center in Austin takes owner surrenders and Austin Pets ALIVE takes them from TLAC.   TLAC also has a raw save rate of over 90% in the last year since implementing the programs outlined by the No Kill Equation

      • http://www.facebook.com/susanjwillard Susan Willard

        Were the dead Spindletop dogs included in TLAC’s save rate?

    • http://www.facebook.com/easterli Deborah Easterling

      Guess they’re not no-kill then, are they?

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=584196512 Jonathan Gilbert

    Washoe 775-856-2000 has a 3 week wait pending evaluation–Its easy to be NK when you don’t take in animals, and when you do, they must be healthy and well adjusted

    • NKBN

      So the answer is to not allow people a “cooling off period” by scheduling surrenders and instead take them in and kill them? 

      • http://www.facebook.com/susanjwillard Susan Willard

        Once an owner has made the decision to surrender a pet NKBN how long do you think the owner will keep the pet?    Perhaps long enough to drive around the bend and open the car door or maybe the owner will run over it in the parking lot of the shelter that’s refused to take in the animal.  That’s happened and is happening to many  animals that are unlucky enough to have to depend upon one of Winograd’s shelters, which take away drop boxes and schedule surrenders in order to improve their numbers.

      • NKBN

         Taking a certainty “the animal WILL die” and a possibility “the animal MIGHT be released or run over” is not comparable in my opinion.  The same holds true for the other arguments of warehousing or hoarding – we HAVE to kill it because it MIGHT end up with a hoarder is skewed logic.

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Nina-Schipperke/100002776368647 Nina Schipperke

        Percentage of people who acquire animals that end up giving them away, abandoning them, or taking them to shelters: 70%

        • Percentage of animals surrendered to an animal shelter that were originally adopted from an animal shelter: 20% 

        UNITED STATES FACTS & FIGURES
        * Number of cats and dogs born every day in the U.S.: 70,000

        .The US infant birth rate per day 10,800

        For every person born , 7 cats or dogs are born.
        55% of households do not have pets

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=541538876 Lucy Van Pelt

         Then why are you a breeder, Ward?  You know, those “little black dogs” you breed and show?  Or did you stop breeding and now you are on the anti-breeder side?  If so, why?

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Nina-Schipperke/100002776368647 Nina Schipperke

        So now you are copying all your silly comments directly from that LAST time you posted silly comments?

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=541538876 Lucy Van Pelt

         Why don’t you answer the question Terry?  I mean, isn’t the fact that you BREED dogs relevant to the discussion? 

        Yet, still you don’t answer. 

        BTW, nice effort at attempting to belittle me, but you still look like a jackass. 

        I hope you realize I have a lot of friends and fans.  They LOVE it when I make you look like a jackass. 

        I keep telling them, it’s too easy, the material just writes itself!

        Now hows about that Julie??? Smart or stupid?  What say you, Ward?  I know you like to pride yourself on your supposed “intelligence”, so tell us what you really think of Julie….

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Nina-Schipperke/100002776368647 Nina Schipperke

        You have tried this ugly dress on a thousand times Lucy..and it’s still ugly.

        I never answer stupid questions.
        You are free to think and say whatever foolish thing  you wish.

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=541538876 Lucy Van Pelt

         Speaking of ugly, where is your picture, Ms. Ward?

        I mean, if we are all going to discuss my looks and gawk at my pictures, it’s only fair that we get a gander at your ugly puss – don’t you think?

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Nina-Schipperke/100002776368647 Nina Schipperke

        You do not need anyone to  ‘belittle’ you Lucy.
        You’re  doing a fine job of that your own self.

      • Damifino

        Fuzzy math again.  Mike Fry debunked this one already, but you continue to spread it all over the internet.  The figures for 7 to one are over a person’s lifetime, so the reality is that people who own pets need to have 12 over a lifetime.  I’ve already had more than that, how many have you had?

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=541538876 Lucy Van Pelt

         Hey Terry, tell me the truth about something*chuckle*. 

        Do you think Julie is intelligent?  Now come on, I know she is one of your little stalking buddies and you find her useful but your answer to this one question will tell us if you are an HONEST stalker or a lying stalker. 

        Again, I ask you Ward:  Is Julie, the beautician, intelligent, in your opinion?

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Nina-Schipperke/100002776368647 Nina Schipperke

        Actually, compared to the  Winogradian groupies, we’re all  brain surgeons.

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=541538876 Lucy Van Pelt

         That’s right, and you’ve all given each other labotomies, too.

      • http://www.facebook.com/susanjwillard Susan Willard

         The animals die in NK shelters.   The animals suffer for days and weeks before dying to parvo, pneumonia or are euthanized after the animal becomes aggressive and a danger to others due to confinement 7 days a week/231/2 hours a day for weeks and months.

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=541538876 Lucy Van Pelt

         Willard, do you have a life beyond trolling the internet to spread your stupid lies about No Kill?  Seriously, I worry about you.  In fact, do any of you Gumps have a life beyond the stalking of Winograd and other No Kill advocates?  BTW, have you checked out my My Life profile today?  I updated it for you stalkers, I know you’ve been spending a great deal of time gawking over me.  LOSERS

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Nina-Schipperke/100002776368647 Nina Schipperke

        Actually Lucy no one cares about you so much.

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=541538876 Lucy Van Pelt

         Really Terry, is that a fact?  Then why are you always talking about me?   Why do you post my My Life profile page over at your discussion page and talk about me?

        Why do you stalk me?  Why do you all Google my name?  Why do you all follow me around?  Write blogs about me? 

        That’s if, “no one cares” of course.  Explain it for us all.

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100004099843775 Mia Russell

        *crickets

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Nina-Schipperke/100002776368647 Nina Schipperke

        Prolly they do it cause it’s so  entertaining Lucy.
        Like watching  a mechanical  talking monkey you wind up and it hops up and down and  bangs on a drum and then spits.

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=541538876 Lucy Van Pelt

         LOL

        Why am I not surprised that you find watching a mechanical monkey toy entertaining?

        That’s the nice thing about you stalkers, you are so simple minded….

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100004099843775 Mia Russell

         Susan that’s a lie. NO kill shelters are clean, safe and healthy for dogs and cats. Stop spouting off your PETA and HSUS fueled propaganda that No kill is suffering. Killing animals is the ultimate abuse.

      • NKBN

        This is not how a true no kill shelter operates.  Did you notice the sections of the no kill equation that address this?

        5. Comprehensive adoption programs (you CAN adopt your way out of killing)

        7. Medical and behavior programs, to ensure that every animal gets the treatment and enrichment it needs

        8. Public relations/community involvement, because the public WILL step up to help IF you let them know

        9. Volunteers, without whose labor we couldn’t do all we must on the animals’ behalf

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=541538876 Lucy Van Pelt

        The thing is, Willard wants the animals to die.  Sooner rather than later. Of course.  She just pretends she likes animals, but we all know she secretly hates them.
        For example, she believes feral cats should all be rounded up and killed, isn’t that right Willard?
        She also believes that the govt. should force a limit on how many pets a person can have in their own home.  Isn’t that right Willard?
        Please clarify for us, so that the people that don’t know you like I do, can see where you are coming from?  In order to understand you, Willard, we need to know how you *really* feel about companion animals.

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Nina-Schipperke/100002776368647 Nina Schipperke

        As long as there is a staggering overpopulation  of  homeless animals there will be no definitive answer.
        We will be able to save some, hopefully we will get better at it.

        Because weak minds demand a simple answer  to everything they just conveniently  deny the reality like ostriches poking their heads into the sand.
        Nathan Winograd has taken advantage of some very weak and simple minds.

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=541538876 Lucy Van Pelt

         Why you hiding behind Nina Schipperke today, Ms. Ward?  Your other fake names been banned here?

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Nina-Schipperke/100002776368647 Nina Schipperke

         And I’ll huff, and I’ll puff, and I’ll blow your house down…Silly girl, all threats and drama and accusations and yammer ..
        Shaking your little fists and calling to the gods to bring down their wrath upon the heathen.
        You are good for comic relief though.
        despite the fact that you have never been threatened with a sense of humor..

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=541538876 Lucy Van Pelt

         Ward, you are so outclassed, give it up.  How are your dogs anyway?  The ones you breed?  Or did you stop breeding them?  Please tell us, we are curious.

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Nina-Schipperke/100002776368647 Nina Schipperke

        One would have hoped you would have moved up to something more creative than that Miss Lucy.

        One does tend to expect too much.

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=541538876 Lucy Van Pelt

         Uh huh, yeah….You know, I don’t need to hide behind fake names, like you do, Ward.

        Everyone knows who Lucy is and I happen to like Lucy Van Pelt, she suits my personality just fine. 

        But why do you, Terry, have to create NUMEROUS fake accounts and then try to pretend you are someone else? 

        Do tell!

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Nina-Schipperke/100002776368647 Nina Schipperke

        How curious that you say I’m hiding behind fake accounts yet you know exactly who I am.
        Your comments get more  peculiar every week.
        Lucy I do believe you have tumbled down the rabbit hole.

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Nina-Schipperke/100002776368647 Nina Schipperke

        And by the way Looosie, if you can stop yammering and waiving your wee fists long enough  to click on Nina Schipperke it will take to straight to my FB page badda bing.
        Now that wasn’t too difficult, was it?

      • NKBN

        Weak and simple minds they are not:

         http://nokillbuffaloniagara.wordpress.com/2013/01/31/those-wacky-no-kill-extremists/

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=584196512 Jonathan Gilbert

        Ah hah..The No Kill Time Out…LOL, they are full, as is Animal Ark.  Guess the only places with pet overpopulation in the NK world are Washoe and Hastings.

  • NKBN

    Which program of the no kill equation is harmful to animals?  NONE Which program, if implemented, would save animals?  ALL

    1. Trap-Neuter-Vaccinate-Return programs for free-roaming community cats.
    2. High-volume, low- or no-cost spay/neuter programs
    3. Rescue groups, for moving animals out of shelters
    4. Foster care, especially for animals with special needs
    5. Comprehensive adoption programs (you CAN adopt your way out of killing)
    6. Pet retention programs, to help people keep their pets rather than giving them up
    7. Medical and behavior programs, to ensure that every animal gets the treatment and enrichment it needs
    8. Public relations/community involvement, because the public WILL step up to help IF you let them know
    9. Volunteers, without whose labor we couldn’t do all we must on the animals’ behalf
    10. Proactive redemptions, to ensure that as many lost animals find their ways home as is possible
    AND
    11. A compassionate director, who takes killing off the table and asks, “What instead?”

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=541538876 Lucy Van Pelt

     Speaking of being ashamed, why do you find it necessary to hide behind so many fake names, Pat?  Perhaps because you are a well known stalker of Nathan’s.  And a well known nut. 
    How’s that blog of yours Pat?  Have you written about me lately?  I do so love when you write about me.  It makes me feel so special.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=541538876 Lucy Van Pelt

     You must be joking.  I suppose we would “get there  a lot faster” with you, Ward, at the helm?   GMAB!!!  I just spit out my water all over the keyboard.
    The HUBRIS you Gumps show day in and day out is really comical.  If you were so secure, why would you feel the need to create numerous accounts to post under, Ms. Ward?  Why not stick to just one?  I do.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=541538876 Lucy Van Pelt

     Speaking of Rancho Cucamonga, Pat.  Isn’t this where Nathan booted your crazy ass out as a volunteer?  Isn’t that the REAL reason you foam at the mouth at the mere mention of his name?  And stalk him day and night, 24/7?  Because you feel he did you wrong?  Do tell us, please.

  • Damifino

    I am amused that you paint all of No Kill as just being the No Kill Advocacy Center, which is the organization founded by Nathan Winograd.  The operative word there is “advocacy, not “puppy mill busting”, not “grants for spay/neuter.”  And yes, Nathan opposed mandatory spay/neuter, and for good reason.Part of the equation is accessible, low cost (or free) spay neuter.  Mandatory s/n is punitive.  Fining people instead of helping them is not the way to end shelter killing.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100004099843775 Mia Russell

     ummmmm…..gee I don’t know Julie, maybe because EVERYTHING he says is quite easily verifiable, by multiple, credible, independent sources? In journalism if you have 2 that’s considered very solid. In this case, I can verify every single thing by more sources then I can list. People believe it because it is the truth. You know it, even if you don’t want to admit it, and that is why you spend so much time and energy running around trying to do “:damage control”

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100004099843775 Mia Russell

     I don’t understand why we can’t be against cruelty for ALL animals? I don’t want any animal to suffer Julie. But for you, clearly, farm animals are more important then dogs and cats and it’s OK for HSUS to do some bad things because they also do “some” good. What you don’t understand is that most people, throught their love of their pets, would eventually want more and better protections for farm animals and maybe even stop eating them, but by constantly opposing life saving legislation for pets, groups like HSUS make sure this won’t happen

    • Anon

      I completely agree with you Mia. People like Julie can’t seem to understand that the average person doesn’t really have any exposure to farm animals. They don’t have them living in their homes and they don’t see the pain and suffering of these animals. The key is to let these people see the suffering of animals they know, love, understand, and share their lives with. Once people fully support the welfare of companion animals/pets, then the welfare of farm animals will become the next logical step. Unfortunately, there is a sever lack of logic when it comes to militant vegans.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=541538876 Lucy Van Pelt

    Hey, I tried to check out DeSgusto’s latest blog and got a message that it was “REMOVED” .  Care to explain what happened to the stalking freak, anyone????

  • WhatsamattaU

    Nathan Winograd lost me when he lied about PETA’s “90% kill rate.” The facts are easily Googled–this number refers to pets brought in by poor people just for low-cost or free euthanasia on medical grounds. It’s basicly the only service this PETA location offers. 

    Winograd deliberately disceived his followers on this. What else is he lying about? 

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=541538876 Lucy Van Pelt

       What else are YOU lying about?  How about you give us your REAL name?  LMAO 
      Anyone care to take a guess at which stalker “WhatsamattaU” is?  WARD/DeSGUSTO?Dunceaway or GUMMP?   I’m sure I will soon find out…As I’ve got LOTS OF SPIES….I find out everything you gumps are up to.  LOSERS.
      BTW, where’d DeSgusto’s blog go?  139 idiotic blogs from DeSGUSTO gone from Google….Watch it Pat, you may be next! 
      *fingers crossed*

      • WhatsamattaU

        I suppose Lucy van Pelt is your real name, and you really ARE the character in Peanuts.

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=541538876 Lucy Van Pelt

         Nope, but please don’t PRETEND you don’t know my REAL name, STALKER!  Of course you do, as your friends talk about me constantly. 
        You see, if I was truly afraid to reveal my true identity, I would CREATE dozens of FAKE names, like you do.
        Got it?  I mean, Lucy Van Pelt, is kind of exposed already, don’t you think?
        You guys are so stupid.

      • WhatsamattaU

        I have no idea who you’re talking about. Who are these “friends”? I don’t know anyone here. But I do know a liar (Nathan Winogra) when I see one and I know a cartoon too.

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=541538876 Lucy Van Pelt

         Uh huh….suuuuuure you have no idea who or what I’m talking about.  Don’t worry, I’ll find out which WITCH you really are soon enough….I have lots of friends watching you stalkers.

      • WhatsamattaU

        Cuukoo for Cocoa Puffs

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=541538876 Lucy Van Pelt

         Which WITCH are you?  If you want to fight with me, at least use your real name, I mean, we all know my real name, don’t we? 

        It’s only fair.

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Nina-Schipperke/100002776368647 Nina Schipperke

        And the little mosquito goes buzz buzz buzz.

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=541538876 Lucy Van Pelt

        Why are you hiding behind “Nina Schipperke” today, Ward?  You never answered me.  Is TW banned from here already? 

        BTW, nice try over at HP, with the new “Shirley” ID.  ONE POST and your sophomoric attempt at humor was obvious. 

        How many ID’s do you actually have now, Terry?  I mean, I have ONE, and it’s no secret who I really am, so why do you feel the need to have so many fake ID’s?  Please tell us.

      • Anon

        She probably gets banned alot and she needs multiple alias so that she can continue spreading her hate, lies, and propaganda.

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=541538876 Lucy Van Pelt

         *ding ding ding* I think we have a winner, folks!

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100004099843775 Mia Russell

         Really? I’m real, and coming at you with my REAL name, not hiding behind some BS fake account hurling baseless allegations, like you are

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=541538876 Lucy Van Pelt

         Mia, you must be Nathan too. 

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100004099843775 Mia Russell

         I am! I am actually a little blonde girl, LOL

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=541538876 Lucy Van Pelt

         Nice try though, stalker….

      • Anon

        I don’t think its Ward. Too literate and Ward can’t actually seem to write anything without it consisting of 95% personal insult. Calling someone Nathan is hardly an insult. I would take it as a complement. So much better then being called Dunceway.

    • Damifino

      Where is the proof that PeTA’s claim about “all” of the animals killed being owner requested euthanasia   Where are the vet records?  Where is the proof of incurable suffering?  Instead all we have is Ingrid’s statement that PeTA kills animals that they can’t find homes for   So, where is the evidence that they try to find homes?

      • WhatsamattaU

        It’s there if you look for it, Nathan. But you won’t.

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=541538876 Lucy Van Pelt

        Oh, so Damifino is Nathan too?  You must be confusing Nathan, with one of your stalker friends.  The man doesn’t need to create fake accounts, like you do.  Idiot.

    • NKBN

      If that is true, why is it designated as a shelter and not a veterinary facility?  If they want to help the poor with low cost or free veterinary services, that would be wonderful, but that is not what they are designated for.  If they wanted to create an end-of-life hospice care facility for animals, that would be wonderful, but that is not what they are designated for.  They are designated as a shelter which is defined as:

      Shelter (noun): Something that affords protection; a refuge, a haven.

      Last time I heard a shelter was not defined as “A place to die”

      • NKBN

         http://www.vi.virginia.gov/vdacs_ar/cgi-bin/Vdacs_search.cgi?link_select=facility&form=fac_select&fac_num=157&year=2012

      • WhatsamattaU

        So?

      • NKBN

         You asked me to google PETA’s 90%+ kill rate so I did.  This is directly from the State of Virginia website.

      • WhatsamattaU

        It’s not defined as a shelter. It is defined as a humane society.
        hu·mane so·ci·e·ty
        NOUN 
        1. organization promoting kindness to animals: an organization that promotes the compassionate treatment of animals

        Is it not compassionate to end the suffering of dying animals?

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=541538876 Lucy Van Pelt

        Here we go….Trying to argue the semantics of the word, “shelter”  is such a desperate attempt at defending yourself. 

        Is that seriously the *best* you got?  Pathetic.

      • Anon

        The Commonwealth of Virginia disagrees with you WhatsamattaU.

        They say that PETA does have a shelter and it will be continued to be inspected as such.

        http://www.scribd.com/doc/83336278/vdacs-peta

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100004099843775 Mia Russell

      no, no no. That is not true, They make no secret of the fact. Ask them.

    • Anon

      Considering Ingrid Newkirk has flat out stated that PETA kills adoptable animals… your comment is an outright lie.

  • NKBN

    Quote from Ryan Clinton, FixAustin, from his facebook page:

    n 2007, there were three known U.S. communities saving 90% or more of sheltered animals. Now there are nearly 100. We are winning.

    In 2006, there were two No Kill advocacy organizations in U.S. cities. Now there are hundreds. We are winning.

    Every time a single person shares a post about the atrocities that go on at municipal shelters in the United States, we win.

    Every time a regressive shelter director who chooses laziness over lifesaving is fired or resigns, we win.

    Every time a bottle-baby kitten is saved by a rescue rather than killed by the needle, we win.

    Every time an old dog goes home, every time a puppy is cured of parvo, every time a community cat is altered and released, we win.

    Every time one of our posts is shared so many times that, out of fear, a PETA-backing shelter-killing apologist asks all of her friends to try to trick Facebook into deleting our posts, we win.

    Every time an animal goes out of a shelter’s front door into the loving arms of a new adopter instead of out the back door in a body bag, we win.

    Those who fight shelter reform are on the wrong side of history. Lifesaving prevails. Love prevails. Kindness prevails. Care prevails. We are winning.

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=541538876 Lucy Van Pelt

       Of course we are winning. And the stalkers know it. 

    • http://www.facebook.com/susanjwillard Susan Willard

      Every time a NK shelter sends an animal to a Spindletop or a  Whiskerville or  Animal Rescue Konsortium (ARK),  who wins?.  Certainly not the animals.  Perhaps you’re right Ryan Clinton.  It is the lawyers and lobbyists who lead Winograd’s movement that wins.  It’s certainly not those dead and suffering animals.

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=541538876 Lucy Van Pelt

         Hey Willard, do you think Julie is dumb?  Serious question, I’d like you to answer. Thanks

      • Anon

        Personally, I think Julie has been sniffing too many hair care chemicals.

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=541538876 Lucy Van Pelt

         Aww Anon, I wanted Willard to answer the question.  We all know Julie is dumb, and if Willard or Ward cannot admit it, then that is proof they are liars. 

        So, do you think their failure to answer the question is an admission that Julie is dumb?  I think so….

      • Anon

        I think it may be an unspoken consent by everyone that Julie is lacking in the IQ department.

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=541538876 Lucy Van Pelt

         Severely lacking!  I think she rides the short bus to the salon….

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Hp-Morgan/100002566196204 H.p. Morgan

      Words of a very paranoid man without a doubt.

  • http://www.facebook.com/susanjwillard Susan Willard

    In your call for reinforcements which of you in the cult of Winograd conjured up Lucy?   Methinks you do your side no favors.

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=541538876 Lucy Van Pelt

      I never need to call for reinforcements, Willard, I can outwit you witless trolls any time and any day of the week. 
      But you go right back to your FB page and go talk about me, I like getting the screen shots.  LOSERS.
      And did you see I changed my My Life pic for all of you?  I didn’t want you to get bored with that old pic you were using.  Even though I do look good in it.

  • WhatsamattaU

    The real story on PETA’s Norfolk euthanasia numbers:

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/blogpost/post/peta-and-humane-society-attacked-by-reports–but-are-they-real/2012/02/27/gIQAZdR2dR_blog.html

    PETA told the Post that it does euthanize animals, but only because of “injury, illness, age, aggression, and other problems, because their guardians requested it, or because no good homes exist for them.” PETA has posted a number of blogs about this issue over the years.

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=541538876 Lucy Van Pelt

       Why should I believe them?  They LIE all the time.  Where is the proof of their claims?  Until I see an outside source verify their claims then I have no reason to believe what PeTA says.  Because, you see, they’ve been CAUGHT KILLING too many healthy animals in the past.  Sorry, I don’t forgive and forget when you kill healthy animals.

      • WhatsamattaU

        YOu don’t have to but I expect more of Nathan Winograd “internationally renown speaker”. He should know better.

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=541538876 Lucy Van Pelt

        So, am I Nathan, too?  Are we all Nathan?  Nathan is much nicer than I am.  You know that.  I don’t know how he keeps his composure with all you freaks stalking him endlessly.  I give him credit.

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100004099843775 Mia Russell

         Seriously. Poor guy

      • http://www.facebook.com/easterli Deborah Easterling

        (stalk, stalk, stalk…)

    • NKBN

      The key phrase here is “because no good homes exist for them”.  How hard did PETA try to find them good homes?  Did they reach out to anyone?  Another shelter?  Friends? Family? Their million+ supporters?  If they are killing 97% of the animals they bring in to their shelter then they must not feel that any home is good enough and they are better off dead. 

      I like to think there are millions of loving wonderful pet guardians who give their pets great homes and if we are charged with their wellbeing, we should be doing more than sticking a needle in their veins .

      For those animals that are now dead because PETA decided there weren’t any “good homes” for them, we can only honor their memories by continuing to fight against the slaughter of adoptable animals in shelters.

      • WhatsamattaU

        Can’t you read? PETA is not a shelter so quit calling it that. It is a humane society. If you keep calling it a shelter, then the only reason is that you want to lie and mislead. Animals that can be adopted are sent to local shelters so they can be adopted (this is what SHELTERS do). The handful of animals in the VA report that are listed as “adopted” were taken home by PETA employess (and I’m sure you will somehow find something wrong with that, too).

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100004099843775 Mia Russell

         Why not? They call themselves a shelter.

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Hp-Morgan/100002566196204 H.p. Morgan

        PeTA does not call themselves a shelter, the state of Virginia does because it has no other place to put them.

      • NKBN

         It is defined by the state as an animal shelter/humane society.  As far as the 3% that were adopted by PETA employees, thank goodness that at least those people were deemed “appropriate homes”, otherwise those animals would now be dead

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Hp-Morgan/100002566196204 H.p. Morgan

        Find one reference that says PeTA offers the services of a “shelter”. They are not a shelter. Some Humane Societies offer free euthanasia but they aren’t shelters. PeTA is a lot more humane than what NK creates like Spindletop and Caboodle, Angel’s Gate, the list is long.

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Hp-Morgan/100002566196204 H.p. Morgan

      Okay, so let’s compare. Washoe/Reno, NK bragging right, euthanized 516 pets in 2012. The Seattle, Washington shelter listed on No Kill News euthanized 1,427 pets in 2011. Charlottesville, another big bragging right for NK, euthanized 233 pets in 2013. 

      That’s only 3 of the 70 shelters NK claims to have. So you can imagine how many altogether these No Kill shelters killed last year. I do believe if you add them up, they would be the ones you should proclaim as killers because just the above ones add up to more than the numbers for PeTA. Plus the deception of using the term No Kill so people don’t think NK doesn’t kill. 

      Then add in the numbers who died in their own feces at all those No Kill places such as Spindletop and Caboodle. Wow, No Kill is definitely the killer.

      • Anon

        Ironically enough Caboodle has started winning their court cases, the ASPCA is in contempt of court for not returning Craig’s personal animals back to him and should be reopening soon in a new location. I guess Caboodle wasn’t as guilty as the corrupt organizations such as PETA, HSUS, and ASPCA claimed they were huh?

      • http://www.facebook.com/JohnDopp John Doppler Schiff

         Caboodle Ranch has not won ANY case.  The court ruled that the ASPCA was ineligible to recover costs, and that’s it.

        The court also ruled that Caboodle is “clearly and substantially lacking in the resources, ability, skill, and (most importantly) willingness to follow expert veterinary advice…”

        And they subsequently ordered that “CABOODLE is hereby enjoined from hereafter possessing or having custody of live animals.”

        Craig Grant stands trial for felony charges of animal cruelty this year, as well as illegal disposal of dead animals.  And fraud charges are in the works.

        So please, Anon, tell me what court cases you mistakenly think Caboodle Ranch is winning.

        Craig Grant is being held accountable for the slow torture and death of the cats he fraudulently collected money to care for.  And it’s long overdue.

      • Anon

         FL Statute 57.051, due to the ASPCA losing their case trying to get recovery costs, Caboodle is now allowed to got after the ASPCA for four times the monetary value of those unlawful charges… sounds like another Ringling fiasco now that I think about it. 

      • http://www.facebook.com/easterli Deborah Easterling

        Sorry, “Anon”.  You’re mistaken.  Try again.  Get that info from the CR folks, did you?  Like the part about the ASPCA being in contempt for not returning the cats?  (wishful thinking)  Read the court order.  Perhaps you’ll have a better chance of understanding it than they did.  

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=541538876 Lucy Van Pelt

     That is really the motivation behind all of this nonsense:  A REAL, deep seeded hatred for animals.  They aren’t fooling anyone.  Not anyone sane anyway.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=541538876 Lucy Van Pelt

    Funny how I’m not “important” to any of you stalkers yet I keep getting sent screen shots of you all talking about me. 

    Tell Triple Lundy, she’s so gauche….She needs to lay off the hoho’s.  

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100004099843775 Mia Russell

       Like this?

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=541538876 Lucy Van Pelt

         …..and Randy, nice to see you too!  Funny I could NOT Google your blog today, what happened?

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100004099843775 Mia Russell

       LOL  or this, Lucy?

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=541538876 Lucy Van Pelt

         Why thank you Mia.  Do we finally have the proof of what I am talking about now?  That these people are stalkers? 

        I rest my case.  Everyone can now judge for themselves!

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100004099843775 Mia Russell

         Yeah sorry was too busy laughing to post right away

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=541538876 Lucy Van Pelt

         It’s nice to see you Hilda, set any cars on fire lately?

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Hp-Morgan/100002566196204 H.p. Morgan

        Would you like for me to put up the screen shots of your conspiring with DAC to put up horrible blogs about Pat Dunaway? Screen shots that show that you are the stalker. 

        Lucy Van Pelt Don’t know if you know already or even care, but another blog has been written in your honor. I think you know who I’m talking about.Yesterday at 1:32pm · 1

        Douglas Anthony Cooper I haven’t read it, but my girlfriend has, and says it’s hilarious. This woman seems to be obsessed with my fedora.
        Douglas Anthony Cooper You should! That would be hilarious. Substitute names like “Harve Morgan”. If you copy her blog often enough, it will completely sink her. Every time you see the word “Winograd”, substitute the word “Dunaway.”

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=541538876 Lucy Van Pelt

         Wow, that’s some really damning evidence you got there H.p.

        BTW, H.p. Morgan, why are you so protective of Pat Dunaway?  LOL

        I invite people to Google away, and see how “well respected” our Pat really is.  *snicker*

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Hp-Morgan/100002566196204 H.p. Morgan

        I always am for the ones being stalked and defamed by liars like yourself. Where’s the proof, Lucy Girl? Where is it? Anonymous letters? Is that all you have?

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=541538876 Lucy Van Pelt

         Are you talking about the anonymous letters sent to Mr. Winograd about you being a fruitcake and animal abuser?  LOL  Thanks for reminding all of us!!!
        People, you might want to check those letters out.  They tell the story of the highly *respected* Pat D.  LOL

      • Anon

        I can always post the screen shots of the stalking pro-kill cult posting other peoples personal information on FB. 

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=541538876 Lucy Van Pelt

         Please do so, Anon.  I’d love to see what you have.  I know they post all of my personal information everywhere they can. 

        That is how sick they are. They have no regards for another person’s personal safety or privacy.

        Just because they didn’t like me because I want to stop animals from being killed needlessly.

        And, since I have nothing to hide, I INVITE their stalking, because it just shows what wack jobs they truly are.

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Hp-Morgan/100002566196204 H.p. Morgan

        Really, Lucy? Who is it posting the information about Pat Dunaway? You are a kettle calling the pot black. And no one is stalking you, you are a little nothing. Why would anyone want to stalk you?

      • Anon

        I have screen caps of them trying to find out the personal information of other people as well.

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1483812661 Virginia Roulakis Faubel

        Mia Russell, can you tell me why you have posted a screen shot of a comment I made on a discussion page?  Is it relevant to this article or are you trying to harass me?

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=541538876 Lucy Van Pelt

         Yes, it is relevant to your stalking me.  Now if you didn’t stalk, there would be no need to post it.

    • Anon

      Maybe they find more excitement talking about you then they do about their own, sad, pitiful, and empty lives?

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=541538876 Lucy Van Pelt

         Obviously, I’ve never felt so popular in my life!  *blushes*

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=541538876 Lucy Van Pelt

    And now we have Jay Teske talking about me?  And fake names?  LOL
    Jay/Kay/Karen/ what IS your REAL NAME??? Please, do tell us.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100004099843775 Mia Russell

    So Julie, how come you ran off and stopped defending PETA’s killing the moment people came along and challenged you on it? You seemed eager to defend them earlier.

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=541538876 Lucy Van Pelt

       She ran away to go and ask her little witches coven what she should say.  She’ll come back with something stupid. Wait for it…

  • NKBN

    From Nathan Winograds Blog article, titled “Who is Pat Dunaway?”
    http://www.nathanwinograd.com/?p=691 

    Yes, I am quoting right off Nathan’ page because I find his arguments, logic, and facts to be more credible than anything that has been posted here. 

    ‘Since these Enigmatic Naysayers exist in many communities, we are duty
    bound to challenge them because they wear the mantle of animal
    protection, yet pursue an agenda—based on lies and vilification—that
    seek to protect an animal control bureaucracy focused on poor care and
    overkill. As a result, they can potentially sidetrack reform efforts. We
    have seen in our national politics that failure to challenge swift boat
    tactics emboldens these people to further misrepresentations and
    attacks. We owe it to the animals whose killing they champion and to the
    reform efforts they seek to prevent to meet them head on and to respond
    to their allegations no matter how outrageous. ‘

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100004099843775 Mia Russell

       All you have to do is go to her blog and see all the hateful stuff she posts about pitbulls and feral cats , and celebrates life saving legislation being defeated, and BSL being upheld, to see what she is really all about. Not to mention the attacks on Nathan which are completely made up fabrications.

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=541538876 Lucy Van Pelt

         Exactly Mia, and she NEVER STOPS.  And she makes things up out of thin air, because she knows it’s easy to get away with defaming people on line. 

        BUT, as Randy has learned the hard way, justkeep it up, and eventually someone might just be willing to fight back.

        So, keep it up Pat.

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1483812661 Virginia Roulakis Faubel

        What Randy experenced and what the rest of the United States already knew is people with compromised financial means ( poor and low income people ) are not as well represented in our judicial system as those who have money. Nothing new about that and it has nothing to do with guilt or innocence.

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=541538876 Lucy Van Pelt

         Really?  Is that right Virginia?  So, you are saying that the Judge was paid off?  Is that what you are saying?

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=541538876 Lucy Van Pelt

         BTW, Randy can make some money selling some of those bongs, right?  I mean, they aren’t illegal in his state, right?

      • Anon

        Something that the likes of PETA, the HSUS, and the ASPCA like to take advantage of I would like to add. But it doesn’t prove Randy is innocent of his slanderous and criminal acts… and his acts of stupidity…

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Hp-Morgan/100002566196204 H.p. Morgan

      And here you can read the truth, truth that can be confirmed, unlike the lies by NKBN about a woman who is well respected as a pet welfare advocate. Winograd has been challenged time and time again to present his “evidence” of his accusations against Dunaway. He has never met that challenge because he has nothing. http://workingtohelpanimalstodaytomorrow.blogspot.com/2012/11/will-real-pat-dunaway-please-stand-up.html

      Winograd wrote that piece after Craig Malisow contacted him for an article for the Houston Press. In fact, Winograd actually sent a letter to the Editor of the Houston Press accusing Malisow of trying to blackmail him. Winograd removed it from online within an hour of posting but it is still available. http://www.nathanwinograd.com/linked/malisowblackmail.PDF

      Mr. Malisow went on to write a lengthy article and it was not in praise of Winograd. Houston chose another route in fact.

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=541538876 Lucy Van Pelt

         *well respected*  LMAO

        Sure you are Pat, you are a legend in your own mind.  And I agree that everyone should go and read your blog.  That ought to end any debate on whether or not you are sane. 

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Hp-Morgan/100002566196204 H.p. Morgan

        There you go again. Where’s your proof? At least I don’t use a cartoon character’s name like you do, I use my real name.

      • Damifino

        Funny.  There’s no one in Southern CA who can verify that H.p. (or Harve) Morgan is a real person, not even the staff at Devore.

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Hp-Morgan/100002566196204 H.p. Morgan

        So, like I don’t exist? Is that what you are trying to say? Well, I say that you aren’t smart enough to find the correct information. I am just one step ahead of you.

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=541538876 Lucy Van Pelt

         *snicker*  sure thing Pat….we all know you use your real name.  LOL

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100004099843775 Mia Russell

         oh Pat/Harve….stop it. You’re an embarrassment to yourself

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=541538876 Lucy Van Pelt

         LMAO!!!!  She kills me!

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Hp-Morgan/100002566196204 H.p. Morgan

        I can only wish.

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=541538876 Lucy Van Pelt

         Oh, death threat!!  I have the screen shot.  LOSER

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Hp-Morgan/100002566196204 H.p. Morgan

        You show yourself with each comment, Lucy.

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Hp-Morgan/100002566196204 H.p. Morgan

        Really? And all this time I see you as the foolish one on here.

      • Damifino

        I hardly think that Pat’s hate-filled blog can be used to confirm anything, other than that she’s bat-poop crazy.  Make sure to go to the first page and check out the entry about how she found a “photo” of one of the No Kill advocates.  Yeah, that’s a credible source.

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=541538876 Lucy Van Pelt

         LOLOL @ bat poop crazy!!!  And btw, she stole that picture from my FB page, WHILE STALKING ME!!! 

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Nina-Schipperke/100002776368647 Nina Schipperke

    Actually Lucy  & Mia, I think everyone is just  bored of your sandbox and mudpies.

    You represent Nathan Winograd most adequately.

    I can only hope that in the next presidential election you  become a spokesperson for my candidate’s opponent.

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=541538876 Lucy Van Pelt

      Uh huh, yep!  Did you see the screen shots, Nina *Terry*?  I thought you all didn’t care anything about little old me? 

      Those screen shots sure tell a different story now, don’t they? 

      By the way, enjoy your little FB discussion group while to you still can.  You witches are going to have to find a new hangout really soon.

      And Hildy, please don’t set any more cars on fire, you hear me???

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Nina-Schipperke/100002776368647 Nina Schipperke

        “Nah Nah I’m telling on you”
        “Mommy Mommy”

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=541538876 Lucy Van Pelt

         You mean, like you are doing?  Flagging all of my comments? 
        Try and stay on topic, Terry.  When did you stop BREEDING dogs?  If, in fact, you have stopped breeding dogs.  You still haven’t answered the question.

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Nina-Schipperke/100002776368647 Nina Schipperke

        Hmmm When did I stop breeding dogs?
        About the same time you were released from Framingham?

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=541538876 Lucy Van Pelt

        Oh, I’m going to sue!  Can I have a copy of your fake lawyer’s letter Hilda?  I want to send it to Ward. 

        So, you still breed dogs then, Terry?  Is that correct?

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100004099843775 Mia Russell

       Sorry, Terry, that you felt personally attacked by me challenging some facts and countering with my own.

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Nina-Schipperke/100002776368647 Nina Schipperke

        Thats a stretch Lucy, even for you.

        Stop trying to fool people.
        You’re  only fooling other fools.

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=541538876 Lucy Van Pelt

         Hello, so now I am Mia?  I’m confused, am I Lucy/Maria/Nathan or Mia?  Or all of them?

        How do you keep all of your fake identities straight Terry? It’s hard work!

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Hp-Morgan/100002566196204 H.p. Morgan

        Yes, you are indeed confused but let me assure you that others know who you are.

      • Damifino

        Just like you think I’m Nathan.

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=541538876 Lucy Van Pelt

         Of course they do, right Harve/Pat/H.p.
        That’s what the stalking is all about.
        YOU stalk ME and then go around posting all of my personal information online so that any lunatic can come and get me.

        Right?  Are we clear?

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Hp-Morgan/100002566196204 H.p. Morgan

        The screen shots show quite differently. It shows a woman totally enamored with a bald nondescript writer, enamored that this woman creates blog to defame a respected pet welfare advocate. Now that is a stalker.

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=541538876 Lucy Van Pelt

         Stop saying that Pat is *respected*, Pat Dunaway is REVILED.  Got that?  Good.

        Google her name people, and judge for yourself.

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=541538876 Lucy Van Pelt

         and who exactly am I enamored with?  Douglas Cooper?  REally?
        Other than his PeTA/Hsus blogs when do you see me anywhere near him or his blogs?
        I mean, come on, you stalk me all day and night.  Post the proof. 

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Nina-Schipperke/100002776368647 Nina Schipperke

        No one would come and ‘get  you’ Lucy because anyone who would is already in a mental institution.

      • http://www.facebook.com/easterli Deborah Easterling

        Just Maria.

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=541538876 Lucy Van Pelt

         And you are just another stalker who is obsessed with me for some unknown reason.  Thanks for chiming in, stalker!

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100004099843775 Mia Russell

         You’re an idiot, Terry. But think I’m someone else if you want, IDGAF

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Nina-Schipperke/100002776368647 Nina Schipperke

        Oops, good catch.
        Hard to tell all you guys apart

  • NKBN

    The agenda for Sunday is:

    Noon – 12:45 – Informational Fair
    1pm – 3:30 pm – Nathan Winograd on the Main Stage
    4pm – 4:30 pm – Book Signing
    4pm – 6pm – Cocktail reception with vegan snacks and a hosted bar with beer, wine, soft drinks and bottled water

    • http://www.facebook.com/peter.a.reese Peter A Reese

      The Booze is vegan too.

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Nina-Schipperke/100002776368647 Nina Schipperke

      And from 8-10 will there be a screening of  the Groucho Marx film  ‘Hello I Must Be Going’?

      • liesltich

        And immediately following, please join us for an opposing viewpoint with performer Terry Ward. She’ll be presenting her comedic dialogue: “Me, Myself, and Moi: Forget the Cats and Dogs, Let’s Have Some Fun!,” and “I’m So Clever, Sometimes Even I Can’t Understand What I’m Saying.”

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=541538876 Lucy Van Pelt

         You know her well, you nailed her *self absorbed* personality precisely.  Worst part is how unfunny she really is.  Sophomoric is how I would categorize her attempts at humor. 

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1483812661 Virginia Roulakis Faubel

    No Lucy thats not what Im saying. Im saying that wealthy people have access to more qualified attorneys. Are you telling me youve never heard of people of lower income being found guilty of murder etc because they did not have the means to hire a qualified attorney and were represented by a public defender. Are you telling me youve never heard of a wealthy person hiring a team of attorneys to find ways to manipulate the legal system. Please.

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=541538876 Lucy Van Pelt

       That is not the case in this instance Virginia.  In this instance, it was proven, repeatedly that Randy defamed someone with intent to harm her.

      Face it, he’s a stalker and a loser, as determined by the Judge.  If he didn’t do the crime, he wouldn’t be in the situation he is in. 

      You are pretty sad that you defend such a low life as Randy.  Please don’t talk to me any more.  You make me sick.

      • Damifino

        Not to mention that he basically told the judge that he had no intention of obeying a court order.  He can’t blame stupidity on not being wealthy.

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=541538876 Lucy Van Pelt

         You have to be really LOW to defend Randy’s behavior in this matter.  I mean seriously, he has stalked, defamed and harassed this person for YEARS.  And Virginia thinks this is just fine?  I don’t call them all stalkers without good reason, that is for sure.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1483812661 Virginia Roulakis Faubel

    Ive stalked you? Ive made comments about how you speak to others on public posts but Ive never stalked you. Are you sure you want to stick with that?

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=541538876 Lucy Van Pelt

       Yes, I’m sure.  You have no business talking about me PERIOD. I have no idea who you are and I don’t care who you are, so why am I even a topic of your discussion?

      And then, with the posting of my My Life profile and picture, for you all to discuss my looks and makeup, and whether or not I am a prostitute, etc…

      You are judged by the company you keep Virginia, and you keep company with a bunch of lunatics and stalkers.  So, yeah, I think you are guilty by association.  How’s that?

      Have I made myself clear?

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Nina-Schipperke/100002776368647 Nina Schipperke

        You all are in  SUCH a  twist because we’re making fun of you   Nah Nah

        Y’all  don’t like to be made fun of.

        You toss around  insults and accusations and  dimwitted twaddle like chickenfeed.
        But all you’re gonna get in return  is disdain and  scorn for your MONUMENTAL  silliness.

        To be honest Lucy,  I do not think I have encountered a goofier bunch of people in my life.

      • Anon

        You know Terry, I have yet to see you post anything, anywhere that isn’t just insults. It seems you are the dimwitted one.

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Nina-Schipperke/100002776368647 Nina Schipperke

        Didn’t mommy tell you that when you dish it out you’re gonna get it back?
        You  can play silly-buggers all you want but you aren’t allowed to make up the rules.

      • Anon

        Really? I have seen you insult anyone and everyone who did not agree with your rather dimwitted views. Whether they insulted you or not. More often then not… not.

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Nina-Schipperke/100002776368647 Nina Schipperke

        Funny no one can see anything you have ever posted Anon.

        But then I don’t have much shame and self-loathing

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=541538876 Lucy Van Pelt

         Yeah, you really should Ward, you are an idiot.

      • Anon

        Maybe you need your computer screen fixed, I can see everything perfectly fine… maybe I’m Nathan.

        *strikes a pose and looks at Lucy*

        Hey Lucy! Do I look like I could be a Nathan to you?

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=541538876 Lucy Van Pelt

         I rather enjoy all of the attention, Terry.  And I have no fear to show my face in my profile.  Why don’t you all do the same?  Are you all that ugly?  I mean, I have heard numerous accounts of how bad a few of you are, and well….Randy’s mug shot speaks volumes but how about you, Ms. Ward?

        If you want to judge my looks, how about we judge yours?  How about you Virginia?  Or Mary Lundberg?  I have heard you are calorically challenged, care to show us a picture?

        I can take it, of course I can.  So, put your own mug up for all of us to gawk at why don’t Terry or Willard or Pat? 

        Afraid or something?

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100004099843775 Mia Russell

       Here ya go, Lucy

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100004099843775 Mia Russell

        That is you, right Virginia? Yes?
         

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Nina-Schipperke/100002776368647 Nina Schipperke

        Mia has a screen-shot Mia has a screen shot
        Nah Nah

        Mommy Mommy Virgina said a naughty.’

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1483812661 Virginia Roulakis Faubel

        Mia Russell, unless your interested in my having your name added to the list of people accusing me of the criminal act of stalking I might suggest you leave this one alone. My saying that Lucy Van Pelt is a pseudonym used by a woman who advocates for No Kill on public forums is not stalking.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1483812661 Virginia Roulakis Faubel

    Youve made a serious accusation against me Lucy. That I stalk you, do you have proof of this?

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=541538876 Lucy Van Pelt

       I think the screen shots, of which I have PLENTY speak for themselves.  Want to take  me to court?  Okay, whatever….

      Please just leave me alone.  I don’t LIKE YOU.  I don’t care about you.  Now go away, please.

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Nina-Schipperke/100002776368647 Nina Schipperke

        You should  have paid more attention when you were little and they told you If you dish it out you gotta be prepared to get it back.

        Lucy wants  to whack but  WHAT a hissy-fit when she gets it back.

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=541538876 Lucy Van Pelt

         I can take all you got Ward.  Give it your best shot, you pathetic stalker.

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Nina-Schipperke/100002776368647 Nina Schipperke

        how about some synonyms for pathetic and stalker?
        Maybe do yourself a favor and upgrade the vocabulary..
        Or not..
        Some people loved the sixth grade they just never left.

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=541538876 Lucy Van Pelt

         If the “stalker” moniker fits, then wear it proudly, Ward. 

      • http://www.facebook.com/easterli Deborah Easterling

        No kidding.  Limited vocabulary is an overstatement.  Accusing people of posting under false screen names – funny.  Seriously – grow up and use your real name.  Everyone already knows who you are anyway – they knew long before Randy posted.  Screeching about others spending all of their time on the internet – hilarious.  Stalking you?  No one is interested enough in you to stalk you.

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=541538876 Lucy Van Pelt

         Oh, look who has shown up?  The *stalker* who has no interest in me, yet shows up and posts this::

        “Everyone already knows who you are anyway – they knew long before Randy posted. ”

        Really, how did you all know who I was?  I have no idea who any of you are, as I don’t tend to STALK people on the internet.  So, please, Deborah, do tell us why you all *know* me?  Especially since you contradict yourself in the same comment, when you then state, “No one is interested enough in you to stalk you.”  Care to explain this contradiction?  Logic isn’t your strong suit, is it Deborah?

        BTW, I very much appreciated your critique of my looks and makeup.  And NO, a “prostitute” didn’t teach me how to do it. 

        You are real class act lady. 

        But thanks for chiming in and proving what I’ve been saying.  STALKER

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100004099843775 Mia Russell

       I do

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Nina-Schipperke/100002776368647 Nina Schipperke

      Lucy hasn’t made a serious move in her life.

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=541538876 Lucy Van Pelt

         and Terry Ward is a stalker too.  Are you going to send me the letter from the fake lawyer too, Terry?  Hildy has one you can copy.  She sent it to a friend of mine.
        You see, I’ve got REAL friends, not the make believe kind, that you and Triple Lundy have….

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Nina-Schipperke/100002776368647 Nina Schipperke

        Why do you repeat over and over that you have  real friends? 
        Most people have friends.
        But most people aren’t  compelled to reassure themselves that they do, 
        in like…public.

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=541538876 Lucy Van Pelt

         Most people don’t have to create *fake* friends, like you, Ward. 

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=541538876 Lucy Van Pelt

         See Virginia?  Even Ward knows you aint going to get very far with your “action” against me.  Good luck with that@facebook-1483812661:disqus   I’ll be waiting.

  • M Lundberg

    http://projectfifty-two.blogspot.com/2012/10/duh.html I would love to attend so that I could ask why in the world he thinks the existence of puppy mills indicates that there is no overpopulation problem… one of the most bizarre things he has used to try and convince people that over population is not real. Here is something you can read on the subject of overpopulation prior to attending http://www.shelteroverpopulation.org/Books/Replacing_Myth_with_Math.pdf 

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=541538876 Lucy Van Pelt

       Why do you hang out with breeders then Mary?  Like Terry/Nina? 

      • M Lundberg

        Who I ‘hang out with’ are people who want to see the end of killing of healthy animals in shelters across the U.S. … and who are sick and tired of the non stop attacks coming out of the NK movement directed at national groups who have been working to help shelter animals as well as the treatment of other animals. Who I ‘hang out with’ are a growing group of people who have at one time or another questioned those in this movement in regards to the denial of overpopulation when there are millions of animals in shelters – and in doing this, have been called ‘killer apologists’- which is the farthest thing from the truth. Who I ‘hang out with’ are people who wonder why Winograd and others fall so in line with the thinking of Berman. Who I ‘hang out with’ are people who do not feel the entire blame of shelter animal deaths lay on the shoulders of the shelter workers, but also are a problem of the community as a whole- to deny the problems existing in the communities is to cover one’s eyes to the truth. Who I ‘hang out with’ are people who realize that there are problems within the rescue world and the passage of CAPA could lead to shelters being forced to hand over animals to unscrupulous people who work under the guise of ‘rescue’. That is who I ‘hang out with’… and as people learn the truth.. and become disgusted with the protection of such incidences as Caboodle by some NK people simply due to PETA being involved.. the people I ‘hang out with’ are becoming more numerous. 

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=541538876 Lucy Van Pelt

         Keep dreaming Triple Lundy, it aint the people you are hanging out with that are becoming more numerous, it’s the size of your pants.

      • M Lundberg

        No Kill at it’s finest folks. While animals are dying en mass in shelters across the country- A group claiming to want to end the killing of innocent animals highjacks the term No Kill and pretends to have Anonymous back them while they go online and make fun of people in a highly immature way spending hours calling people who disagree with them names and making fun of their appearances. Lucy Van Pelt- I use my real name- I am who I am… and because I truly want to see lives saved I do not play games… because, the lives of millions of animals are more important to me than coming up with catchy names to call people. Here is who I am http://www.marylundberg.com/animals.html 

        I do not have time to play your games. You are setting back the animal rights movement years of work. 

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=541538876 Lucy Van Pelt

         If you were *serious* about saving animals lives, then you wouldn’t defend the status quo so vehemently and you wouldn’t hang out with people who like to see animals killed.

        That makes no sense, Lundy….Why don’t you answer to my question, by the way?  I posted a link to a legitimate news story, (Camille also posted it) -  it was about one of your *rescuer friends*, you know the one who shipped a dog to Canada, where it would MOST CERTAINLY be KILLED due to BSL – is this how you and your *friends* rescue animals?

        By shipping them to other countries to be gassed? 

        If I had *friends* like yours, I’d be ashamed to admit it….

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=541538876 Lucy Van Pelt

         and that comment has nothing to do with you being calorically challenged either….

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=541538876 Lucy Van Pelt

        Hey Triple Lundy, aint this one of your friends?  those animal loving friends you speak of????  This is one of yours and Randy’s friends, right?  Sent this dog to it’s death for what??? 
        Is this how your “friends” “rescue” animals? By sending them to be killed? Please explain Mary L.

          http://www.marketwire.com/press-release/caledon-man-and-woman-convicted-of-animal-cruelty-under-ontario-spca-act-1756029.htm

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Nina-Schipperke/100002776368647 Nina Schipperke

        Why did you grow up in an orphanage?

      • liesltich

        Wow, that’s a real zinger, Terry. In your next comment, will you ask her how long it takes her to “swab out her doublewide”? You sure are doing some inspiring work on behalf of the animals!

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1483812661 Virginia Roulakis Faubel

    People commenting on what theyve read on public pages is not stalking. I have never harrassed you, threatened or tried to intimidate you.  My name is my business and I dont take your saying this lightly. You can remove the posts saying this or I will have to look into how else to have that done. 

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=541538876 Lucy Van Pelt

       Go right ahead and look into it.  I wont remove anything I’ve said. 
      Stop talking about me, stalking me, and hanging out with low life’s and convicted stalkers and then we will not have anything more to argue about.  OKay?
      Deal?

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1483812661 Virginia Roulakis Faubel

    Sorry, guilt by association doesnt cut it in this forum Lucy.

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=541538876 Lucy Van Pelt

       Really, is this YOUR forum?  I can judge you however I please.  Now if you refrain from discussing me, or talking to me, from now on, we can just part ways now.  Otherwise, I’ll judge you how I see fit.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1483812661 Virginia Roulakis Faubel

    I kindly asked you to remove the remarks where you accused me of a criminal act. If you wont take them down, then yes we are done here.

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=541538876 Lucy Van Pelt

       Toodle-LOO!!  See above screen shot, Anon just posted. 

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=541538876 Lucy Van Pelt

       I’ll be waiting for a letter from the fake lawyer you borrow from Hildy! 

  • Anon

    Here you go Lucy. Yes, these people are not stalkers at all (sarcasm in-case your too mentally challenged to catch that, trolls). It must have taken some serious stalking skills to track down your personal info. Oh wait… didn’t they also call and harass the shelter you volunteer at? 

    https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/307407_338242752961807_1887978599_n.jpg

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=541538876 Lucy Van Pelt

       Lovely isn’t it?  Good thing I have thick skin.  Or I’d be hurt by all those mean comments about me.

      • Anon

        Your secret identity is safe with me, Wonder Woman!

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1483812661 Virginia Roulakis Faubel

      Sorry, I did not look for your personal information or call a shelter to harass anyone. I did however comment on the photo saying who you are or what you do for a living is irrelevant, and the only relevant thing is every time you open your mouth to discuss No Kill you hurl insults at people. Anyway, I have what I needed. You cant expect to accuse people of criminal acts and not have anyone do anything about it.

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=541538876 Lucy Van Pelt

         Yep, good luck with that!  See you in court Virginia!  Can’t wait.

      • Anon

        Well that is a lie. She never posted anything on that thread accept a link…. Interesting.

      • Anon

        A link to a barney the dinosaur video no less… that in itself is an unspeakable and abominable evil. 

  • http://www.facebook.com/hone.tawaroa.9 Hone Lennox Tawaroa

    There is no overpopulation problem,nothing to see here everybody put your head in the sand,You cant find a home for them all so dont crate them on a farm somewhere,put them to sleep.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=541538876 Lucy Van Pelt

     I don’t know why, I”m so insignificant, yet you write blogs about almost weekly, don’t you?
    You people are crazy, you know that?

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=541538876 Lucy Van Pelt

     Do you really want people to post more proof?  Really?  Give it up already, I think they’ve seen enough Pat.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=541538876 Lucy Van Pelt

     Really, long list eh?
    What you got on that list so far??? 3 places?
    Post your “long” list Pat….Let’s see it.

    • liesltich

      What a sad and tedious display. Is this comment thread a good example of animal “advocacy”? How tragic for the animals. 

      Lucy, you spend too much time and energy on these people. Unlike some of the people engaging in the fray here and elsewhere, you actually seem to have a heart, so I’d encourage you to try to ignore them, if at all possible. They are like tar babies; the closer you get to them, the more s–t you’re going to get covered in. I’ve seen the cringeworthy comments from the likes of Terry “Moi is Just so Darn Clever” Ward and her little posse of bored bullies on FB. Likening people to “stupid” goats, lunatics, and prostitutes is the kind of thing mean little children do. I wonder how old these people are. Wonder if they realize how ridiculous they make animal activists look.

      The only upside is that it’s clear these stay-at-home advocates would never be taken seriously in real life. And they seem to spend 24/7 at the computer, which means their impact on the lives of real animals is most likely trifling to nonexistent. Mercifully, as bewildering as their animosity toward the idea of ending shelter killing is, none of their online jabbering has any influence on the policies of those who care for and make life and death decisions about the homeless cats and dogs in our communities.

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=541538876 Lucy Van Pelt

        You are right of course, but they don’t stop this crap if I stop.  You know they will just keep posting their b-s and lies everywhere and hope they remain unchallenged. 

        I can’t let them do that, especially when they made this about ME.  I don’t know any of these people, and yet, here you have it, how they stalk me day and night.

        So, you can say to ignore them, but why should they get away with this?

        And I’m afraid you are wrong about one thing, all of their online jabbering and stalking, lying, harassing HAS cost animal’s lives….that’s why they need to be SHUT UP.

      • liesltich

        I completely understand your frustration, but my guess is that they will get bored and move on to something or someone else if you stop acknowledging them. Probably just back to Nathan W, whose every word they hang on to as if clinging for their very lives. Like all bullies, they are fueled by insecurity, and every time one of them posts a comment about something you say, they can all “like” the comment and add their own insults. It’s a mutual admiration clique. They make themselves feel better by putting down others. Lots of judgment, self-congratulation and back patting going on over there. But actually discussing the issues intelligently and rationally with an aim to helping animals? Not so much.

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=541538876 Lucy Van Pelt

        I DO ignore them, I have so many people sending me the screen shots and the blogs that these people write about me?
        Why?

        I have blocked every single one of them ages ago, why am I this important to them?  It’s messed up and I don’t back down when people try and bully or harass me.

      • liesltich

        Just stop engaging them. If they have stooped to the level of telephoning you or sending you messages to harrass you, then you have legal recourse.

        I’m not sure why they find you so intriguing… Why don’t we ask? Willard, Ward, Roulakis-Faubel, “Harve Morgan” and side-hack Pat — what gives? Why does Lucy have you in such a lather? Will you one day be proud to say, “I did my part to fight efforts to end the killing of shelter animals by writing blogs making fun of people I’d never met and incessantly posting pictures, jokes, and personal insults on Facebook”? I know I wouldn’t feel very proud of that, but everyone has different priorities.

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1483812661 Virginia Roulakis Faubel

        I havent telephoned Ms. Van Pelt, I havent sent her any messages, I havent posted anything personal about her on my facebook page, I havent written any blogs about her, I havent looked up any personal infomation on her and Ive not made any personal insults other than what is publicly apparent when she posts in public and spews insults. She has however accused me of the criminal act of stalking on this very public page and that is why tonight I am in such a lather as you say. But Ms. Pelt believes she is above the law & can make false and defamatory accusations without merit and Im thinking no, not in the USA.

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=541538876 Lucy Van Pelt

         Virginia, will you just GET A LIFE.

         You are NOT going to get any lawyer (expect for Hilda’s fake one) to bother with me. 

        NOW please just SHUT UP.

        If you don’t want to be called a stalker, then don’t stalk.  I thought we cleared this up already?

        Geeesh

      • liesltich

        I’d rather spend my money helping animals than on bringing frivolous lawsuits, but hey, like I said, everyone has different priorities. You sound like you take yourself too seriously. Your obssession with Lucy started before she “accused you of a criminal act.” I’m just wondering why you guys are so intrigued. I’m intrigued by your intrigue.

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=541538876 Lucy Van Pelt

        I tried to tell you!  You can’t make this stuff up!

        Let her go see a lawyer, I’m sure he’ll have a good laugh at her.

        Good night now.  I’m going to sleep…

        All you little stalkers get busy now talking about me while I sleep, okay?

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=541538876 Lucy Van Pelt

        I don’t have any desire to seek “legal recourse”.  Just watch and see what happens to Virginia *chuckle* when she talks to a lawyer!  LMAO

        I just don’t like the lies they tell, because they HURT animals.  That’s it.  And I always call them out on their lies, and that is why they hate me and stalk me.

        So, how can I ignore them when they do so much harm to animals?  Animals die because of their lies and B-S.  

        And that is exactly what they want, especially Willard and Dunaway. 

        Sorry, I can’t just ignore that.

      • liesltich

        Alright, just don’t get too close to the tar baby. I’m not sure about your second paragraph. I gotta ask, why would anyone listen to someone who says things like this in a discussion about killing animals: “For people with the formal education of a goat , there IS treatment available for this disorder but it involves very complicated and invasive surgery. And there is a chance of re-infection due to the widespread prevalance of the Stupid virus,” or this: “Nathan Winograd’s No KIll Bowel Movement.”

        Serious adults, discussing seriously unfunny issues–such as the deaths of millions of healthy and loving cats and dogs every year–do not say things like this.

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=541538876 Lucy Van Pelt

         Good night. 
        P.s. Watch out, now they will be coming for you….

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1483812661 Virginia Roulakis Faubel

        Lucy I already did speak to a lawyer. Im in the financial securities business and having someone accuse me of the criminal act of stalking is not going to go unaddressed.

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=541538876 Lucy Van Pelt

         Good luck!  Want my address?  Oh, forget it, you already have that I’m sure…..
        I hope you know I have LOTS AND LOTS of screen shots of you *not stalking* me.  So, bring it honey :)

      • Damifino

        Really?  If our name is so important why doesn’t it show up in a Google search other than for a couple of lame comments you’ve made about No Kill?   I don’t think that you’re nearly as “prominent” as you think you are, or that anyone really cares that Maria has classified you as a low-level stalker who posts insults about her online.

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=541538876 Lucy Van Pelt

         Uh oh, now she is going to have to sue you too!!!  Her lawyer is going to be very busy…Busy busy busy!

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1483812661 Virginia Roulakis Faubel

        I didnt say I was prominent. I said I have a business tied to my name that is tied to my securities license
         that provides a living for my family and accusing me of a criminal act is not going to go unaddressed.

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1483812661 Virginia Roulakis Faubel

        Your guess would be wrong. I kindly asked Ms. Van Pelt to remove her accusation that I commited a criminal act of stalking and she and Ms. Russell refused to remove their comments citing a comment I made telling someone Lucy Van Pelt was a pseudonym. If this is stalking Ill be happy to hear it from the courts. In the mean time since Id like to be able to show an attorney I asked you to repeatedly remove these false accusations against me Im asking you again to remove the posts where you falsly accuse me of committing a criminal act. 

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1483812661 Virginia Roulakis Faubel

        To clarify the false accusations of my commiting a criminal act were made by Lucy Van Pelt and Mia Russell not liesltich.

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100004099843775 Mia Russell

         yeah….all I did was post a screenshot of some remarks YOU made in a PUBLIC FORUM. Good luck with that. But Randy can probably refer you to his lawyer?

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=541538876 Lucy Van Pelt

         Randy was his own lawyer.  LMAO  I wouldn’t use him!

        hahaha

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100004099843775 Mia Russell

        oh dear god, that’s so sad

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=541538876 Lucy Van Pelt

         Yeah, his lawyer was an idiot, and a stalker.  LOL

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1483812661 Virginia Roulakis Faubel

        Mia Russell what you did was try and confirm Ms. Van Pelts false accusation of my having comitted a criminal act of stalking.  You are in fact complicit in perpetuating this false accusation and I asked you to remove your comments and you also refused. 

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100004099843775 Mia Russell

         ok. Just trying to help out.

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=541538876 Lucy Van Pelt

         How many times has she used your name?  Have I used her name even once?  LOL  getting these screen shots Mia?  Make sure you do, so you have them in court.
        LOL

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100004099843775 Mia Russell

         Actually tried, not because I feel that I have done anything wrong, but all this is distracting from the issue. It doesn’t give me the option. I’ll certainly flag them, and you can do the same

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1483812661 Virginia Roulakis Faubel

        Yes, I can see they are still here. Thats unfortunate Ms. Russell  because while you might not feel youve done anything wrong you have. Posting accusations that people have comitted criminal acts and then suggesting if they do something for you you will remove the false accusation is not a good thing.

      • Anon

        Its not a good thing to offer threats of litigation if someone doesn’t do what you want either. Especially after that person specifically told you to stop talking to them, stop talking about them, and to leave them alone.  

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=541538876 Lucy Van Pelt

         Uh huh, yep…Thanks Anon!  There is *that*, too!

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=541538876 Lucy Van Pelt

         Don’t flag anything, I WELCOME Ms. Faubel’s lawsuit.  I have a medical defense, I can’t be held accountable for what I say – Virginia said it herself! 

        These idiots bury themselves with their own stupidity each and every time they comment, let them continue to threaten us with lawsuits.  It’s ludicrous. 

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=541538876 Lucy Van Pelt

         You see?  Told you it wouldn’t stop, didn’t I?  Virginia is still talking….

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Camilles-Rescue-Page/100002032418100 Camille’s Rescue Page

     http://www.marketwire.com/press-release/caledon-man-and-woman-convicted-of-animal-cruelty-under-ontario-spca-act-1756029.htm

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=541538876 Lucy Van Pelt

      Yet, these same people will claim they want to save animals.  They are liars. 

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Camilles-Rescue-Page/100002032418100 Camille’s Rescue Page

    The link I just posted is of an irresponsible rescuer affiliated with all the haters on this page. Barbie sent this dog to it’s death. Shoved him in a crate, put in cargo then sent to hell & finally his death in an area of Canada with BSL! People judge you by the company you keep!

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Nina-Schipperke/100002776368647 Nina Schipperke

    Nathan Winograd is a world expert on bupkis.
    Nathan Winograd lies about the overwhelming overpopulation crisis of  homeless cats and dogs.
    He says there is no crisis.Nathan Winograd purposefully pits rescuer against rescuer, shelter against shelter, animal-lover against animal-lover.
    Animals dying needlessly in shelters need a LEADER, not a truth-abuser.
    Animals dying needlessly in shelters need a LEADER, not  a quarrel-monger.
    Healthy adoptable cats and dogs dying like flies in the streets and in crowded  under-funded shelters need a voice. a responsible  leader, a person who unites, who does not divide.
    Nathan Winograd is not that person.

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Nina-Schipperke/100002776368647 Nina Schipperke

      Every single person who disputes Winograd’s magic numbers is blocked, banned and labeled a ‘killing-apologist’ or a ‘willing murderer”.
      In Winograd’s World there is no debate.
      Regardless that you have been rescuing dogs or cats all your life, regardless that you have a house-full of ‘throw-away ‘animals, regardless that every extra nickel you have goes to the rescues in your care,  Lord help you if you dare to dispute Nathan.
      Because if you DO dispute Winograd’s illucid fairytales, you just got no reason for livin’

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Nina-Schipperke/100002776368647 Nina Schipperke

        We got no issue with no-kill.
        We got problems with Winograd.
        Life-saving No-kill shelters were around LONG  before Winograd was workin’ in a prosecutor’s office.
        Hopefully they will be around long after Nate goes back to busting stoners, or whatever he used to do.
        God willing some day we will advance to the point where few..if any..adoptable animals are euthanized for lack of funds or space.We’d get there a lot faster if Winograd would step off the bus.The rescue community does not need fairytales and magic math.The rescue community does not need contention and division.Why Nathan Winograd feels the need to divide  us is anyone’s guess

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100004099843775 Mia Russell

        Yeah, except that’s another lie, and you know it. I have personally seen him argue with and allow a great deal of debate on his page.

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Nina-Schipperke/100002776368647 Nina Schipperke

        liar liar pants on fire
        Mommy Mommy!

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=541538876 Lucy Van Pelt

        Hey Ward, the taunt actually goes like this, “LIAR LIAR CAR ON FIRE”.

        If you need it explained to you, refer to the HildaBEAST, for that.

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100004099843775 Mia Russell

      I am very sorry that you feel the deplorable state of most of shelters, which should be a sae haven for pets but instead kills them, and the largest “protection” agencys, are doing a great job. Fortunately, there are people like Nathan who truly want reform and to see what is best for the animals, all animals.

    • Damifino

      How many times, and in how many places, are you going to post this same comment?  

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=541538876 Lucy Van Pelt

         I CANNOT STOP LAUGHING

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1483812661 Virginia Roulakis Faubel

    Ms Van Pelt,  I asked you early on in this thread when you first made your false accusation to remove your comment that I had committed a criminal act of stalking but you refused. I told you my name was tied to my business which it is and the importance of my securities license and the damage this sort of false accusation can do is nothing to joke about.  I subsequently asked Ms. Russell to remove her comments as well but she also refused. Not everyone is a cartoon character, many of us are real and accusing people of criminal acts is not something that will go unaddressed. 

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=541538876 Lucy Van Pelt

       Delete your own comments and then NO ONE will know who I was talking to….Problem solved.  Maybe your lawyer will tell you that if you are going to act like a giant horse’s ass on a public message board, you shouldn’t use your real name.

      Or, to put it another way, how about you just DON’T act like a horse’s ass on a public message board, under any name?

      And maybe you shouldn’t talk about people you don’t know on a public forum, because someone might be taking SCREEN SHOTS of you saying those things.

      Then, you wouldn’t have to threaten to sue everyone who says you are a stalker…or horse’s ass….or Poopy head….

      Can you sue me for calling you a “poopy head”?

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1483812661 Virginia Roulakis Faubel

         I dont care how many screen shots you have of me. Gossiping about someone who posts publicly is not stalking. Ive not stalked you, ever. Ive never threatened or intimidated you and you have accused me publicly of that with no proof, you think its funny but its not. I could lose my license or have it suspended if I had actually done what you accuse me of and Im not laughing Lucy, not at all.

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=541538876 Lucy Van Pelt

         Well, I hope you learned a nice lesson from all of this….Now go to bed

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1483812661 Virginia Roulakis Faubel

        I use my name because I dont commit criminal activities so I dont have to worry, the lesson learned will be yours Ms. Van Pelt, you cant falsly accuse people of criminal activities and just think its OK and they will go to bed and forget it.

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100004099843775 Mia Russell

        Tell you what, Virginia. You guys delete some of your blatant lies about Nathan, and I’ll GLADLY delete not just those comments but every single one I made on here. 

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1483812661 Virginia Roulakis Faubel

        Ive never ever accused Nathan Winograd of commiting a criminal act. EVER

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1483812661 Virginia Roulakis Faubel

        No, Ill tell you what Ms. Russell, resorting to extortion will not work in this case. Ive not comitted the criminal act of stalking which is what you and Ms. Van Pelt have accused me of and Mr. Winograd has nothing to do with this.

      • Damifino

        Seriously?  Has Maria ever said that she would report you to any law enforcement or licensing bureau?  (Although I do find it interesting that you are in a profession that requires a license but you have no qualms about posting lies and BS about No Kill on the internet using your real name.  That behavior is okay in whatever your business is?)

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=541538876 Lucy Van Pelt

         Hey, try Googling her name + poopy head and I bet you get a lot of hits!

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1483812661 Virginia Roulakis Faubel

        horses ass and poopy head are fine but when you accuse me of a criminal act, which you did, then youve crossed a legal line Ms. Pelt

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=541538876 Lucy Van Pelt

         I tried to tell her Damifino, she doesn’t want to listen….Just keeps on talking and talking and making a huge horse’s ass of herself.

      • liesltich

        Her business is Facebook Gossip. I didn’t realize you need a license for it.

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=541538876 Lucy Van Pelt

         Well *stalkers* and friends, I thought about this over night and I considered retracting my statement as Virginia just has frightened me so, THEN a thought occurred to me:  

        You see, I can NOT be held responsible for anything I post online as you see, I have what is called, “Tourrette’s of the mouth”  – that’s a legitimate medical condition – as it was YOU, Virginia,  who diagnosed me with it.  (see the screen shots posted for her diagnosis)

        And we all know what a well respected, pillar of the community you are, and that you would NEVER say something on the internet about someone you don’t even know, if it wasn’t TRUE….RIGHT?

        So, my comments remain. 

        BTW, how’s that lawsuit coming along, stalker?

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1483812661 Virginia Roulakis Faubel

        Its coming along just fine Ms. Van Pelt as my husband who also shares my last name and is co owner of our business doesnt find your accusing me of criminal behavior amusing.

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=541538876 Lucy Van Pelt

         Does your husband know that he is married to a stalker?  and poopy head?

        What business did you say you were in again?  Lying and STALKING people on the net?  You do a good job!

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1483812661 Virginia Roulakis Faubel

        Yes, I told him and showed him the things youve said about me. He disagrees with you on both points but your accusing me of stalking which is a criminal activity is his concern.  Im in the financial securities industry Ms. Van Pelt and I can assure you your false accusations that I participate in criminal activity will not go unaddressed.

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=541538876 Lucy Van Pelt

         Please Virginia, call me Maria, if you are going to stalk me and now sue me for pointing that out to you, then we should at least be on a first name basis…

        I will repeat this ONCE again for you, Virginia:  Just leave me alone and go your own way.  You have the power to end this by NOT bothering me again.  Understand?

        Internet *stalking* (or cyber-stalking) involves a pattern of behavior, which INCLUDES bullying, harassing people, posting LIES and nonsense about them, and generally BUGGING them ad nauseum. 

        So, go ahead Virginia, and keep proving my point.  Or shut up and go away.  The choice is yours.

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1483812661 Virginia Roulakis Faubel

        Sorry Lucy, the choice was yours yesterday and today when you falsly accused me of a criminal activity and not only refused to remove the comments but continued to ridicule and insult me.  I have never bullied, harassed or intimidated you. I have never phoned or privately messaged you. I have never posted anything about you on my facebook page.  I have never made comments about you other than to point out what is obvious to everyone who reads your comments on public forums such as the ones youve posted here. Ive never exibited any type of stalking pattern of behavior and your repeating that lie about my participating in criminal activity will never make it so. Now I am done here.

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=541538876 Lucy Van Pelt

         Finally! 
        Buh bye Virginia! 
        See ya! 
        Toodles! 
        It’s been *most* unpleasant! 

      • liesltich

        Your husband is probably more worried about the effect of your online activities on his reputation and the reputation of his business (Have you googled your own name? All that comes up are Facebook links.) If I had a wife and business partner who spent her working hours gossiping on Facebook, I’d be worried about how that would look to my clients and potential clients. As Lucy said, perhaps you should have thought all this through before making the comments you did.

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=541538876 Lucy Van Pelt

         liesltich, nice to see you here! 
        Do you see now, what I’m dealing with? 
        Does it get any more preposterous than this?
        Watch out, btw, now they will be frantically trying to find out your personal information so that they can stalk you!

      • http://www.facebook.com/djoneswny Dan Jones

        I’m going to make SOME WORDS in ALL CAPS to emphasize that I am SHOUTING BECAUSE I AM UPSET!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1111!!!!!!!!!!!!!

      • http://www.facebook.com/peter.a.reese Peter A Reese

        dan:   please calm down.   you’ll hurt yourself.

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=541538876 Lucy Van Pelt

         There is subtle difference between what is considered shouting and what is considered to be, added emphasis.

        It’s sad that I need to explain this to you, as you feel so clever, and I hate to burst your little bubble, BUT (that’s emphasis, not shouting) when CERTAIN words are in all CAPS, it is to add emphasis to those particular words.  Not dissimilar to highlighting words or putting words in italics or bold text.

        Since, the comment section does not allow for me to use italics or bold type, I added the emphasis by using all CAPS on a few key words.

        So, get over yourself, Einstein…

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1483812661 Virginia Roulakis Faubel

        And just so the audience understands. Your accusing me of stalking and your the one taking screen shots of my discussions on a closed group?

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=541538876 Lucy Van Pelt

        I didn’t take any screen shots, hot shot.  Get your stupid facts straight.  The Judge is going to need the FACTS not your idiotic delusions.

        I thought we were FINISHED, btw?  Why are you still blabbing about this ridiculous, NON issue?

        Yes, I called you a *stalker*.  Now grow the F up and act like an adult and get off of my back.  If you didn’t harass people on the internet, you wouldn’t have anything to worry about.

        Just like your stalking friend, Randy.  Who, is STILL stalking despite the Court’s ruling.

        Some people are just too stupid to learn.  Are you one of those people, Virginia?  I’m beginning to think you are.

        Again, I ask you, please leave me alone, don’t talk to me, or about me, forget you know me?  Okay?

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1483812661 Virginia Roulakis Faubel

        I would like to leave you alone which is why I asked you yesterday to remove your false accusations that I have comitted a criminal act. The court system takes time and what I asked of you would have been the correct way to handle this and would have cost you nothing.  Anyway,  you might be correct, your friend Ms. Russell was the one who provided the first screen shot posted on this page and then there was another posted by someone anonymous referencing a link to a Barney video.  Either way according to you, you are in posession of many screen shots. I wonder if they will all be as damaging to me in your claim of my being a stalker as the link to the barney video. 

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=541538876 Lucy Van Pelt

         Hey, we all reap what we sow Virginia…..do you feel good about yourself and how you have conducted yourself online, in relation to discussing ME, a person who you have never met, nor have you even engaged in conversation with prior to yesterday?

        If you are proud of your behavior, then by all means, pursue your *legal* actions against me. 

        I feel compelled to warn you, however, you are going to be in for a rude awakening, as you simply have no case whatsoever….and risk being laughed at by the Courts, if things would ever even get that far, and they will not.

        So, again, DON’T go online and post lies and insults (which is considered harassing) about private citizens whom you do not even know.  It’s not the behavior of a professional person or a good person, for that matter.

        Now, didn’t your parents teach you any of this?  Geessh

        Now, leave me alone PLEASE, I have no idea how many times I need to ask this of you.  Geeeesh

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1483812661 Virginia Roulakis Faubel

         You and Ms. Russell had the opportunity to remove the malicious comments and not only did you not remove them, you continued to add to them which clearly shows your intent to cause harm. The standard procedure ( these things do take time )  is a cease and desist order where you will both be asked to submit an apology, should you decline, where it goes from there will be up to you and Ms. Russell and I can assure you the courts will not be laughing nor will they be amused.

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=541538876 Lucy Van Pelt

         The cease and desist letter from Hildy’s fake attorney?  I can’t wait.

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1483812661 Virginia Roulakis Faubel

        Ms. Van Pelt you and I have had previous discussions on HuffPo and on Allisons Gourmet. Thats why Im not lying when I describe how you speak when you comment.  I have first hand experience.

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=541538876 Lucy Van Pelt

        I have never been on “Allisons Gourmet” and if we have discussed anything over at the HP, I don’t have any recollection of that conversation.  However, I request you refrain from talking to me or about me, anywhere, anytime, from this point forward.

        But you wont, you can’t help yourself.  You are a moron.

      • Anon

        Actually, I’m one of the people taking screen shot. But that is only because I discovered that one of your friends over there has been trying to find out the personal info of other people, including someone I know.  Trying to find links and connections between people, connections that do not exist. 

        And it is an open group, not a closed group. See, I will even show you.

        https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/24279_339924739460275_139649795_n.jpg

        Now, have a nice life Virginia. Help to save those dogs and breath. Try not to take things people say over the internet so seriously. 

  • http://www.facebook.com/peter.a.reese Peter A Reese

    Did anyone see how big the snowpile was at the southeast corner of the Boulevard Mall parking lot?    It was righteous!

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=541538876 Lucy Van Pelt

       Yeah, it’s so deep I had to wear my thigh high boots (in keeping with the “prostitute” motif).

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Nina-Schipperke/100002776368647 Nina Schipperke

        Prostitute motif?
        Wha?
        What  do prostitutes have to do with Nathan Winograd??????
        You people are nuts.

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=541538876 Lucy Van Pelt

         Nothing at all, so are you still breeding those little black dogs, Terry? 

        That is relevant to the discussion, so please answer the question.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Nina-Schipperke/100002776368647 Nina Schipperke

    Yes. we can.

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=541538876 Lucy Van Pelt

       Good for you, at least you are sort of on topic, Terry. 

      So, now why don’t you and your fellow stalkers go and start your own movement and leave the rest of us alone?

      And go and get your own followers, instead of trying to harass Nathan’s? 

      Get busy working towards your goal!  That will take some effort, beyond trolling the internet day and night and stalking Nathan or people you deem his *followers*.

      Maybe you can get your fellow breeder friends of yours to join you, after all you must have some friends who are breeders, like yourself, right Terry?

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Nina-Schipperke/100002776368647 Nina Schipperke

        Lucy you are the soul of nonsense.

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=541538876 Lucy Van Pelt

         Terry, you have no soul or intelligence.  The only thing you have is a tenacity and a computer with an internet connection.

        Since when does “nonsense” have a soul anyway?  I keep telling everyone, you can’t make this stuff up. 

        Keep talking, Terry, show us how dumb you really are.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Nina-Schipperke/100002776368647 Nina Schipperke

    As Mr. Winograd’s supporters are now discussing prostitutes,  it’s prolly time to move on.

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=541538876 Lucy Van Pelt

       Yep, later stalker! 

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1483812661 Virginia Roulakis Faubel

    And to the moderators of this site, its your call but it might be a good idea to remove the comments where Ms. Van Pelt and Ms. Russell falsly accused me of participating in criminal activity.  I have all the screen shots I need at this point. Just sayin but of course it is your site and your call. 

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=541538876 Lucy Van Pelt

       Yes moderators, or she will sue you, too! 

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1483812661 Virginia Roulakis Faubel

        Ms. Van Pelt for someone who wishes anonymity you certainly seem to purposely insert yourself in lots of things.  Anyway, got to run now Judge Judy will be on shortly and I think they might be airing a rerun in Greek.

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=541538876 Lucy Van Pelt

         You truly are delusional.  You, STALK, I don’t.  Buh bye stalker!

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1483812661 Virginia Roulakis Faubel

    Actually No, not Hildas attorney. I have an attorney friend but as you have allowed this to continue its been suggested to me that I use a securities attorney. You see my business deals with well, securities, you know as in the the Securities and Exchange Commission and the Financial Industry Regulatory Authority which is why I told you I couldnt take this matter lightly and accusing me of a criminal act is not something I can ignore.  

    • liesltich

      Except your claim against Lucy wouldn’t involve securities law. You got some bad legal advice. Maybe your husband could solve this whole problem by simply purchasing this program: http://www.facebooklimiter.com/ 

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=541538876 Lucy Van Pelt

         Hey liesltich!  I see you are having fun messing with the “Gumps”, as I like to call them…..

        Addictive isn’t it? 

        They make it so easy, it’s sort of hard to resist, don’t you think?

      • liesltich

        It’s addictive, I admit. On the other hand, it’s a little like battling an unarmed opponent. And I keep hoping for some clues as to what’s behind their obsession with you and Nathan. There isn’t much substance to their comments, all 300 or so of them, so who knows!

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=541538876 Lucy Van Pelt

         Keep it up, they’ll be staking you soon enough.  

        Right now they are frantically trying to figure out who you are, and are probably thinking you are Nathan or Me! 

      • Damifino

        Or me.  But then, they think I’m Nathan.

      • liesltich

        Maybe I’m anonymous.

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1483812661 Virginia Roulakis Faubel

        No, not bad legal advice, you are misinformed. Obviously you dont understand all that securities attorneys know and do.  Everthing that might affect my securities license needs to be disclosed to my broker dealer and subsequently my U4 might have to be updated which might trigger a FINRA exam. Hiring a securities attorney will not only handle the issue with Ms. Van Pelt, it will also allow me representation should I have to answer to FINRA. Being accused of participating in criminal activity is not a laughing matter and your the one not giving good legal advice ( if thats what you are here for ) to your friend Ms. Van Pelt.

      • liesltich

        Sorry, not a lawyer so I can’t give legal advice. But even as a lay person, I’m aware that Lucy’s comments don’t have anything to do with the SEC or FINRA. Your license is a separate issue and entirely your problem. If you don’t want your license jeopardized because of things you say on the internet, be more judicious when you start typing. If you hope to have any success bringing a defamation lawsuit, you’ll want someone who practices in that area, not someone who does SEC work. However, I doubt any lawyer with an ounce of integrity would tell you this would be a worthwhile lawsuit. You really are quite silly.

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=541538876 Lucy Van Pelt

          Hey liesltich, can you imagine someone actually paying this woman to handle their money?  LMAO  You can’t make this stuff up!  (that’s going to be my new tagline)

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1483812661 Virginia Roulakis Faubel

        And I dont need my husband to solve my problem. Ive been in the securities industry since 1987 when I graduated from college. There is a reason I dont have any marks on my license and I dont intend to allow the peanut gallery here to change that without a legal battle. Anyway, good luck with your endeavors.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1483812661 Virginia Roulakis Faubel

    I dont need your advice on what to do. I tried to handle this with your friend but she seems to think its a big joke but theres nothing funny about someone accusing me of a criminal activity. Having even  a mark on my license is unacceptable to me and even more to the point losing my license will cost me a shit load of income over the next 20 years and what I will pay in attorney fees will be a drop in the bucket to defend myself against Ms. Van Pelts false accusation. I alson dont need to be more judicious in what I say or type which is why I use my  name  because I dont commit criminal activities or do or say the things Ms. Van Pelt has accused me of.  And as far as lawyers with integrity, Im sure whether he does or doesnt have integrity he/she will be happy to cash my check.

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=541538876 Lucy Van Pelt

       Sort of like taking candy from a baby….a very dumb, annoying baby….WAHWAHWAH

    • Anon

      Stalking is not always considered a criminal offense. There are many subtle levels to stalking, which is a form of hassasment. You are the one claiming criminal intent.  

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1483812661 Virginia Roulakis Faubel

        Is this your legal experience or did you see this on Judge Judy? There
        are no subtle levels when referring to someone as a thief, embezzler,
        pedophile, etc. although there may be sentencing differences if found guilty they
        are all similar to stalker in that they imply a criminal activity has been committed.
        And yes, intent to cause harm IMO was established when Ms. Van Pelt not only
        refused to remove her false accusatory comments but escalated the situation by
        having what only  might be referred to as
        her peanut gallery join in to bully, harass and intimidate me. I have the screen
        shots of people going on about googling my name, and continuing to call me
        stalker, psychoanalyzing me, etc.  Its
        not something one would do if they were not intent on causing harm.

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=541538876 Lucy Van Pelt

         *IMO*  YOUR OPINION.  The opinion of a moron….Good luck with the lawsuit already.  Now, for the LAST TIME, leave me ALONE.

        Don’t talk about ME…or reference ME….FORGET YOU KNOW ME.

        I have asked you NUMEROUS times to leave me alone, and you refuse. 

        You better watch out before the men with the butterfly net and the white jacket come to pick you up.  freak

      • Anon

        Stalking is also a slang term. I hate to break this to you, but you have spent the last two days threatening and harassing as well. Obviously your lawyer forgot to tell you to stop engaging Lucy. The first time she told you to go ahead and sue her, you should have stopped. Repeated threats of litigation after being told to go ahead and sue and to stop talking to her, talking about her, and to leave her alone will most defiantly not be looked at too kindly by the courts. The only persons that should be engaging anyone are you and Lucy’s lawyers. 

        (I am not a lawyer. Do not take my comments as legal advice.)

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1483812661 Virginia Roulakis Faubel

        Yes, Im sure she will also be serving me with papers. I guess thats just how it goes.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1483812661 Virginia Roulakis Faubel

    And for clarity sake,  nowhere did I say Lucys comments have anything to do with securities.  I said should this incident trigger a FINRA exam ( hearing ) having an attorney who understands the securities industry, rules, etc would be beneficial.   If any of you were so inclined you might check out the FINRA site. You can look up my license and under the details you will notice I even have to disclose and  list my rescue activities. Everything needs to be disclosed. Nothing silly about it, no laughing matter.

    • liesltich

      Sorry, I’ve got better things to do with my time than look up your license. I really don’t care. I do wonder about your business considering the amount of time you spend on self-created internet dramas like this. How you get anything else done? People use the phrase “So and so is stalking me,” all the time. That’s very different that making a serious accusation of a crime. You should know that. You have no basis for a lawsuit, and you will soon find that out if you haven’t already. You’ve managed to distract everyone’s attention away from the animals, which should be the focus here, and onto you and your “problems.” You must be very desperate for attention. Try focusing more on the animals and less on Virginia. It will make you feel less desperate. Now, this has been a real barrel full of laughs, but I’m going to take my own advice and walk away from the tar baby now.

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1483812661 Virginia Roulakis Faubel

        Your attempt at psychoanalysis or whatever your trying to do here is funny.  Its a nice touch and my husband and I had a good laugh over your attempt to sidestep what is the real issue, my being accused of a criminal act.  Unfortunately, if Mr Winograd is upset by the distraction he should bring it up to Ms. Van Pelt and Mia Russell, I was more than willing to have them remove the comments and move on yesterday but they saw it more as a game and well you can see how thats turned out now.

      • liesltich

        Your “real issue” is actually a non-issue, so you shouldn’t be surprised that no one here is paying much attention to it. Why do you keep mentioning your husband and what he thinks about others’ comments here? Do you think that gives your own comments extra validity?

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=541538876 Lucy Van Pelt

         Careful liesltich – you are getting dangerously close to the tar….

        Although I am enjoying your comments, I must say.

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100004099843775 Mia Russell

         I would have been happy too, as I explained to you, but you can’t, not even your own. I did flag them, like I told you, and you guys can flag them as well. I really don’t know any other way to remove them. If you don’t believe me, try removing your own

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=541538876 Lucy Van Pelt

         I’m actually going to focus on the animals, as you suggest, liesltich. 

        I’d like to address what appears to be the major sticking point for the stalkers, and why they are so angry with  Nathan.

         Their bone of contention appears to be his claims that *overpopulation is a myth*.

        I’ve thought about this myself – as to whether or not *overpopulation* is or isn’t a myth – but then I realize that even if overpopulation is real, it still wouldn’t make any difference to me or to the animals.

        Nathan Winograd’s No Kill Equation, is still, the ONLY sensible, compassionate and responsible way to deal with homeless animals….PLUS, it WORKS.  As proven all across the country.

        So, again the stalkers FAIL in trying to defend their animal killing ways.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1483812661 Virginia Roulakis Faubel

    Yes, you do that Im going to go and hang with my husband and dogs. Have a good one.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1483812661 Virginia Roulakis Faubel

    For someone who has better things to do why do you keep inserting youself into my business?  You seem to spend an inordinate amount of time obsessing about my non issue. 

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=541538876 Lucy Van Pelt

       Because you are funny.  Can you sue me for saying you are funny? 

    • Anon

      If you don’t want people to insert themselves into your business then maybe you should stop posting your business and your threats all over a public site. Believe it or not, this article isn’t about you. It’s about the animals and it is about a man and a plan to save them.

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=541538876 Lucy Van Pelt

       I’m flagging all of your idiotic comments as SPAM.  You are a giant horse’s ass and WASTE of everyone’s time, Virginia. 

    • liesltich

      You made a large part of this thread about yourself with your ridiculous, self-righteous complaints about Lucy. I resent the fact that you hijacked the comments here to discuss yourself, your business, your husband’s opinions, and your belief that you have been victimized. It looks like you may have finally realized what a “horse’s ass” (a literary allusion) you have been and have attempted to turn the comments in a more positive direction. Thank you for that.

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1483812661 Virginia Roulakis Faubel

        Unfortunately, youve mistaken my act of kindness and concern for animals as something other than just what it is. I resent that I was accused of comitting a criminal act which is why Ms. Van Pelt and Ms. Russell will be hearing from my attorney.  Yes, its official, he didnt find it to be as silly and irrelevant as you had suggested. 

      • liesltich

        It won’t go anywhere, honey, but I can tell you need to feel in control, so enjoy it while it lasts. Now, are you going to tell me what your husband thinks of my comment?

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=541538876 Lucy Van Pelt

         Oh Good Grief, it’s starting up again!!!

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=541538876 Lucy Van Pelt

    Mods, can’t you just delete and banVirginia already?  This is getting really old.   It was a joke at first but now it’s just tiring.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1483812661 Virginia Roulakis Faubel

    To try and bring
    the subject matter back on topic I am
    donating $1.00 for every comment posted going forward that relates to animal
    welfare.  I will donate $1 up to $100 to
    sponsor a dog to be pulled by a rescue group from one of the two local kill
    pounds in my area ( Mahoning County or Columbiana County Pound)  Peope can in effect discuss No Kill and or animal
    welfare in general and save an animal.  Only 3
    comments per person will go towards the total contribution although everyone is
    of course free to comment as many times as they like, I dont own this site. Any negative
    personal derogatory comments made will reduce the amount contributed. I hope
    everyone will consider making a positive statement re any thoughts on animal
    welfare to help save the life of an animal. Unfortunately this money will only
    benefit a dog as our pounds do not offer services for cats L

     

     

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100004099843775 Mia Russell

       Ok, part of what I think would help a great deal would be if we could all acknowledge that yes, there are problems in the shelter system, and the big animal welfare agencies, that need to be addressed and changed, to save more lives, and that talking about these things is not divisive, it is necessary.

      • dazed_cat

        I can agree with that. It is how it gets talked about that can be divisive. Pitting person against person is not helpful to anyone, and this may be an Internet-driven phenomenon. If we were in a room together, hopefully we could acknowledge each others humanity.

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100004099843775 Mia Russell

         Thank you, because the only way these things will ever change or improve is if they are talked about.

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1534682080 Caroline Page

         I can acknowledge that and hope a true discussion about No-Kill and aspects of it can be discussed in an adult, civil, positive way.

    • dazed_cat

      Well I appreciate you trying to keep this thread from being one of attacking others. We all should acknowledge how far afield we get when we make it personal. I started out supporting No Kill and not liking PETA for various reasons. I supported no kill because I do not want animals to be killed. However the Overpopulation of dogs and cats has to be acknowledged. Only one study has ever been cited as a source for the ” no overpopulation myth” and that research is incompletely presented in Maddie’s Fund site. I have written via email to Maddie’s Fund and not gotten an answer. If anyone has a direct email to someone at Maddie’s Fund I would appreciate it.

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=541538876 Lucy Van Pelt

         I’ve addressed the overpopulation sticking point in my comment below. In case you didn’t see it, I stated:

        I’d like to address what appears to be the major sticking point for the stalkers, and why they are so angry with  Nathan.

         Their bone of contention appears to be his claims that *overpopulation is a myth*.

        I’ve thought about this myself – as to whether or not
        *overpopulation* is or isn’t a myth – but then I realize that even if
        overpopulation is real, it still wouldn’t make any difference to me or
        to the animals.

        Nathan Winograd’s No Kill Equation, is still, the ONLY sensible,
        compassionate and responsible way to deal with homeless animals….PLUS,
        it WORKS.  As proven all across the country.

        So, again the stalkers FAIL in trying to defend their animal killing ways.

      • dazed_cat

        Why is it stalkers in plural? Is everyone with a different point of view a stalker of you or to someone else? Is posting on forums and following a specific topic stalking? If so, all of us talking to each other are stalkers, therefore the word becomes meaningless.

        Made an error and also posted this as a stand alone post.

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=541538876 Lucy Van Pelt

         I was quoting myself from a previous post. 

        But since you would like me to clarify the reference to *stalkers* I will:

        No, not everyone who disagrees with me is a stalker.  But there are several people, who habitually follow me around on the internet with the purpose of harassing me.  And yes, I call them, *stalkers*.

        They have posted my personal information online as well as pictures of me – and then they have discussed my looks, whether or not I am a prostitute, or have “Tourette’s”, etc…

        Maybe you are unfamiliar with these people, but many of them habitually STALK me.  They most definitely stalk Nathan Winograd.

        They also happened to be here, posting their nonsense and lies a few days ago when I first happened onto this story.

        And yes, I have ample evidence of the *stalking* in case you are curious.  A few examples have already been posted here, from friends of mine, as well as people I don’t even know.  That’s how frequent and well known this *stalking* has become.  Strangers contact me to tell me this is happening. 

        So again, allow me to clarify for you;  not all people who disagree with me are stalkers, but MANY of the people who were posting comments here 2 days ago are stalkers.  I hope that clarifies this for you, and we can end this topic.

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1483812661 Virginia Roulakis Faubel

        Lucy my referring to you as someone having a problem with verbal diarreha is not stalking. Its evident in your public comments.

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=541538876 Lucy Van Pelt

         Why are you once again starting this up? IN MY OPINION YOU ARE A STALKER, and I will not take it back.  I have made this perfectly clear a hundred times.  

        I guess that stick has been re-implanted in your hind end again.  Good bye Virginia. 

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1483812661 Virginia Roulakis Faubel

        And thanks to your recent display of comments someone was also kind enough to grab some screen shots for me. Apparently you thought it would be a good idea to tell Ms. Russell not to remove her comments. You said you wanted me to continue digging my own hole.  Baiting some will call it. Wanting to cause trouble. I have more theyve been pooring in.  Mia saying sometimes you gotta slap the bitch down.  Not all are directed at me. One in particular caught my eye. Your asking people to gather screen shots being said by a  person having nothing to do with you. You just didnt like their opinion and you had plans for the comments.  You went on to sarcastically wish this person good luck.  I look forward to hearing from your attorney. Your lies and false accusations and the harm you intend people will not go unaddressed.

      • liesltich

        I agree with you that there are too many cats and dogs, and that reducing the overall population through increased spay/neuter efforts would make no kill a reality much more quickly. We definitely have too many cats and too many pitbulls and hounds, at least in the South. That doesn’t mean I believe killing is a necessary or acceptable way to address the issue. I support No Kill and believe we can implement it in all communities, though I recognize that different areas of the country may require different approaches to achieve it. I don’t think there is anything inconsistent about supporting no kill, the no kill equation, and those working to achieve no kill in their communities, while also recognizing the need for reducing the population. 

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=541538876 Lucy Van Pelt

     Dear Moderators of this forum: 

    I will donate $120 immediately to an animal rescue of your choosing,  if you will please just  BAN Virginia already.

    Nobody wants to play her silly games or read her nonsense any more. 

    So for the love of PETE, please consider my offer.

    Sincerely,

    Lucy/Maria

    • Damifino

      I’ll donate $10 to the rescue that my foster dog is from for every person who calls Virginia a “poopy-head.”

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1483812661 Virginia Roulakis Faubel

        Excellent idea, hopefully you will have more success than I in getting people to respond. If I call myself a “poopy-head” will you also donate $10.00. Are you placing a ceiling on the total amount you will be able to donate?  Also, can you identify the rescue group so those responding can verify the donations were made on their behalf.

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=541538876 Lucy Van Pelt

         OH crap, you made a funny, Virginia…Does this mean that someone has pulled the proverbial stick out of your ass?

        Can it possibly be?  Have you lightened up?  I know I shouldn’t be talking to you, but I see a glimmer of hope here.

      • Damifino

        Yes, if you call yourself a poopy head I’ll donate.  I’ll set my limit the same as yours, $100 since I’m on a really low limited income.  I’d rather not give the name of the rescue because I don’t speak for them and I’d rather not have the haters do to that rescue what they did to the one that Maria volunteers for, but I’ll provide a copy of my receipt with names taken out.  Is that good enough?

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1534682080 Caroline Page

    I keep reading that spay/neuter is supposedly a part of the No-Kill Equation and many have said it is an important part of the equation. If this is so, then why did the Nevada Humane Society, a supposed “model” Winograd no-kill discontinue their spay/neuter program and is only fixing ferals? Doesn’t seem like spay/neuter is really that important.

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1483812661 Virginia Roulakis Faubel

      Thank you for the question Caroline, maybe one of the No Kill advocates can answer this question for you.

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=541538876 Lucy Van Pelt

         Wow, that’s what $2.00 whole dollars you will have to donate????  You big spender you….

      • http://profile.yahoo.com/BDQYCZ7DP5AD4YH77N2QE3ZL2A Teresa Fulks-Dyer

        Our Main Office Number is (775) 856-2000
        Feel free to call us at (775) 856-2000 with any questions relating to animal welfare, spay/neuter or adoptions.

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=541538876 Lucy Van Pelt

         You think she will call?  Will it serve her purpose to actually find out the answer to the question? 

      • http://profile.yahoo.com/BDQYCZ7DP5AD4YH77N2QE3ZL2A Teresa Fulks-Dyer

        Bwahahahaha  yea, right.

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=541538876 Lucy Van Pelt

         Maybe we should offer to donate  $1.00 to a rescue for the first person to call and ask Nevada Humane Society the question directly -  instead of wasting everyone’s time on this page?

      • http://profile.yahoo.com/BDQYCZ7DP5AD4YH77N2QE3ZL2A Teresa Fulks-Dyer

        Email Addresses

        Nevada Humane SocietyContact us at:info@nevadahumanesociety.org

    • http://profile.yahoo.com/BDQYCZ7DP5AD4YH77N2QE3ZL2A Teresa Fulks-Dyer

      So have you called or e-mailed and asked them?  Why ask here? Isn’t it better to ask the Nevada Humane Society directly?

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=541538876 Lucy Van Pelt

         Terri, we are on the same page, I had not seen your response when I replied. 

      • http://profile.yahoo.com/BDQYCZ7DP5AD4YH77N2QE3ZL2A Teresa Fulks-Dyer

        And now I have done half the work for them Lucy

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=541538876 Lucy Van Pelt

         So, you emailed them? 

      • http://profile.yahoo.com/BDQYCZ7DP5AD4YH77N2QE3ZL2A Teresa Fulks-Dyer

        No, but I posted their phone number below

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=541538876 Lucy Van Pelt

      This is a question for the  Nevada Humane Society, not for Nathan or his supporters. 

      That is why you aren’t getting an answer.  If I knew why they ceased their spay/neuter program, I would tell you.   I suppose I can go and ask them directly for you, as you should have done  for yourself.  And if you REALLY wanted to know the answer, I imagine you would have done that, but seeing as your intent is solely to discredit Nathan, you had to come here and try to pull a *rabbit out of your hat*  LAME

      So, shall I go an ask them the question for you, Caroline?

    • liesltich

      I don’t know the answer to this question, but I agree it is a concern if true. Every shelter–whether it claims no kill status or not–operates differently. You can’t make generalizations about an entire movement based on one shelter. The no kill shelter near me has gone in the opposite direction. It started out with no meaningful s/n program for either owned cats and dogs or free roaming cats. It took a few years of pressure from animal advocates to get the director to implement true low cost and free programs, including outreach to lower income areas, and it is finally making a difference. This shelter took in 350 fewer cats last year. Far fewer kittens than any previous year.

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1534682080 Caroline Page

         Thanks for acknowledging if true it is a concern. That was my point from the philosophical level. Nevada Humane is routinely touted as a model No-Kill shelter and if it discontinued what is in my opinion a big component of the NKE, then it shouldn’t really be touted as a model anymore.  I have emailed them but haven’t heard back. I know spay/neuter work is not glam and a lot of hard work and the results are not instantaneous, but it must be done. It seems Winograd has put the focus on adoption/rescue/TNR and has put spay/neuter on the backseat. He has also said No Kill can be achieved without spay/neuter being put in place. I think this only reaffirms the idea that it is not really important, so shelters and rescue groups are doing adoptions/rescue/TNR and NOT doing spay/neuter. Also some are adopting out intact animals in an attempt to rescue/save as many as you can. These animals will only add more in the future needing homes in addition to what is already out on the streets, the oops litters, animals from breeders AND those currently sitting in shelters.

      • liesltich

        I agree with everything you said. Just to clarify, did he actually say no kill could be achieved without *any* spay/neuter being put in place? I know he’s said no kill could be achieved without mandatory spay/neuter put in place, or without ending puppy mills. If he did in fact say that no s/n at all is necessary, then I would disagree, at least in terms of longterm success. A shelter could certainly stop killing in the short term without implementing s/n, but why not work on reducing the overall population in the community so that your shelter is not consistently overcrowded and your resources, employees, and volunteers are stretched so thin that at some point something has to give way? If you have a smaller population of animals who could potentially end up in the shelter, you’ll have fewer intakes and more resources for caring for the ones who do end up there, as well as a better chance to find each of them good homes.

      • Damifino

        He didn’t say that, it’s another lie being put out by the Hate-Club. .  Low cost or free high volume spay/neuter is one of the elements of the No Kill Equation.  What he has said is that even if you spay/neuter every single animal alive right now it won’t do anything to help animals that are in shelters today.  

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1534682080 Caroline Page

    I posted the below comment but logged in via FB and my name did not show, sorry

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1534682080 Caroline Page

    So this is how supposed animal advocates act? 

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1534682080 Caroline Page

    I am asking here because it seems the current No-Kill Movement lead by Winograd puts spay/neuter on the backseat. No-Kill advocates say it is important in one breath, then Winograd says things like reducing births MIGHT help, when I know it WILL help. Then it appears in actual practice it is blown off and the sole focus seems to be adoption/rescue/TNR. So I wanted to hear what no-kill advocates had to say about it.

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=541538876 Lucy Van Pelt

       You heard what we have to say about it, you need to ask Nevada Humane Society if you want the answer as to why THEY discontinued THEIR spay/neuter program.

      When you get the answer, then come back and tell us what it is, and we can discuss. 

      Okay?  Or do I have to go and get the answer for you?

      If you are under the impression that NATHAN is in control of each and every single shelter or rescue group who proclaims themselves to be No Kill then you would be mistaken.

    • Anon

      While low cost and free s/n is important it is not the only contributing and important factor in the no-kill movement. But I don’t work at the Nevada Humane Society so I can’t really speak for them. If this is a serious question then you should direct it to them.

    • liesltich

      I consider myself a no kill advocate and believe s/n is crucial. Not all no kill advocates think alike, so others may feel differently or simply have a different focus. Many rescuers I’ve known over the years are so occupied with caring for and finding homes for animals, they don’t focus on s/n for animals outside their care. Honestly, rescue is much easier than running a s/n program. I’ve done both, and s/n is *hard,* and it’s harder to see the results, too. 

      I wish more resources and energy went towards providing accessible spay/neuter. There are so many areas in the country where there are no resources at all. No help at all for people who either can’t afford or aren’t willing to pay regular vet prices. Those are the people who need to be reached through s/n outreach. There is a group in Las Vegas, Heaven Can Wait, that drives around to different areas, going door to door, and transporting animals to and from their clinic. They are sterilizing hundreds and hundreds of animals a month. That’s what needs to happen everywhere.

      My feeling is that if you don’t feel enough focus is put on s/n, work to change that. You may be the one who has to spark change. As I stated below, that’s what advocates near me did, and that shelter has a fantastic s/n program now. I think they sterilized about 7,000 animals last year. The no kill movement is not static, and there is no reason why those who believe s/n should take a more prominent role cannot make it more prominent. That approach makes a lot more sense than rejecting no kill as a whole because you don’t like how some of its vocal proponents present it or agree with everything they say.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1534682080 Caroline Page

    Well then what are your thoughts on this? Why hasn’t this work and accomplishment been acknowledged by Winograd and his followers? They went a different route than the NKE, is that perhaps why? http://www.care2.com/causes/new-hampshire-is-a-zero-kill-state-will-your-state-be-next.html

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=541538876 Lucy Van Pelt

       I support any and all efforts to end the killing of healthy or treatable animals.  I don’t care if the group specifically follows Nathan Winograd’s  protocols or not, it’s about saving lives, not taking credit or gaining fame and fortune. 

      From a quick glance at the link you provided, it seems that the STate of NH has achieve No Kill status, using much of the same recommendations in Nathan’s NKE, so bravo for them.

      I can’t answer for Mr. Winograd, of course, but I imagine he would be pleased with the outcome in NH regardless of whether or not he is given any credit for their success.

    • Anon

      Personally, I don’t care who makes us a No-Kill Nation as long as it happens, be it Winograd or someone else doesn’t matter to me. Do they know about NH?

      No-kill is not a new concept. There have been no-kill shelters around for 100 years. If NH has found another way to become no-kill then that is great. More power to them.

    • liesltich

      I’ve heard Peter Marsh talk and think his approach is great. In fact, I attended one conference years ago where Nathan and Peter were both speaking. I’m not sure why it matters whether Nathan has acknowledged his work or not? For all we know, he may have at some point, but what does that have to do with our discussion of how well no kill programs work? Can you elaborate on your concern?

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1534682080 Caroline Page

         Well it seems Peter Marsh’s program worked and it is never mentioned or acknowledged. And his books are loaded with research and lessons learned. That should be promoted too! But he feels differently than Nathan and says you can’t adopt your way out. He has 2 books and they are downloadable FREE all year long. It just seems Nathan rarely acknowledges those that came before him. He gives the impression as if he created the No Kill Movement all by himself. No Kill has been around since BEFORE he came to be.

      • liesltich

        So your issue is basically with Nathan, then. I guess I’d ask you to not dismiss no kill or the efforts of those who are following the NKE with some success based on your distaste for Nathan. As Jake says above, it is the message not the messenger that is important.

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1534682080 Caroline Page

         I guess it is with some of what he says which in essence is his message. He is supposed to be a leader and folks listen to what he says which is his message. He has said on his FB page that No Kill can be achieved before spay/neuter is even put into place. This has created an adoption/rescue/TNR sole focus that has put spay/neuter on the backseat. Additionally on Animal Wise Radio, he said “The goal has never been no new births…reducing births MIGHT help. That discredits spay/neuter and basically only gives it lip service. Well the goal of TNR is just that stabilizing colonies by achieving no new births so that populations decrease over time. So what message does that send? The goal has never been no new births so listen up everyone doing TNR, you don’t need to achieve no new births. Also why wouldn’t a leader who claims spay/neuter is important in one breath but then says contradictory statements in another breath say Spay/neuter WILL help?

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1534682080 Caroline Page

         Oh and I don’t want pets to become extinct and I don’t want well bred dogs to disappear either. I think there are simply too many out there especially cats and Pit Bulls and that there is a lot of irresponsible breeding that needs to be curbed.

      • liesltich

        I’m not in favor of any breeding as long as we have so many homeless animals.

        I understand your criticism in the first comment and agree to a certain extent. There should be more emphasis on s/n. I’ve always believed that he uses the rhetoric he does to counter the “If only people spayed and neutered their pets, then we wouldn’t have to euthanize” refrain, because it’s been used for so long as a justification for running shelters in ways that do not promote saving lives. He’ s correct that we don’t have to sterilize every cat and dog in the communty in order to immediately starting saving more lives at the shelter through proactive adoption efforts, fostering, retention programs, and inreased returns to owner. Even shelters that are not no kill are saving more animals by putting nke programs in place.

        Not sure what’s going on in Nevada, but I know many of the communities with high save rates and shelters that call themselves no kill have started very good public s/n programs. Like anything else, no kill can be implemented well or poorly. There have always been no kill shelters, but this concerted movement to change the way the sheltering system treats homeless animals (and it really began with the No More Homeless Pets campaign) is fairly new. It’s going to take  few more years for us to figure out which  path or paths is best.

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1534682080 Caroline Page

         Here is a link to Peter Marsh’s 2 books: “Replacing Myth with Math” and “Getting to Zero” in case anyone might be interested in looking at them. http://www.shelteroverpopulation.org

  • dazed_cat

    Here is to taking the high road and talking with and not at each other. That is my post number 3. :) We can do better and it starts with me.

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=541538876 Lucy Van Pelt

       I don’t care who I have to work with if it saves animals from being killed.  I never have. 
      Some have made this personal,  but for me it’s about the animals.

      That being said, I don’t take kindly to that blatant lies that some people spread due to their personal vendettas against Nathan.  All it does it cost more animals lives, and I will fight to stop that.

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1534682080 Caroline Page

         So if someone disagrees with what Winograd says and says so they have a personal vendetta against him? He said something on Animal Wise Radio about spay/neuter that I totally disagreed with and I said so on a FB page, but that was not a “personal vendetta.”

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=541538876 Lucy Van Pelt

         I didn’t say you had a vendetta against Nathan Winograd.  Would you like me  to name the people I’m talking about?

        One is Nina Schipperke/Terry Ward.  One is Pat Dunaway.  Another is Randy DeCarlo.

        Are you familiar with any of these people?  I think you might recognize their names. 

        There are more, do I need to name them all?  It’s ridiculous that these people literally spend all of their time trolling the internet looking for any and all news or blogs referencing Nathan Winograd or No Kill. 

        Somehow, I’ve been tied in with Nathan, a man I have never met, and so they also troll the internet and harass me. 

        Have I explained this sufficiently for you or do I need to explain further?

      • http://profile.yahoo.com/BDQYCZ7DP5AD4YH77N2QE3ZL2A Teresa Fulks-Dyer

        And they do spread blatant lies about No Kill.  Agree or disagree on some things but a lie is a lie is a lie.

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1534682080 Caroline Page

         What do they say that are lies about No Kill?

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100004099843775 Mia Russell

        Well, that no kill leasds to hoarding, that if CAPA were passed dogs would end up being in the hands of animal abusers and dog fighters and hoarderd (due to increased rescue access) that kind of thing
         

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1534682080 Caroline Page

        Are you for some sort of regulation for rescues? Because just being a 501c3 doesn’t really mean much. Under CAPA aren’t shelters basically forced to give animals to ANY 501c3 claiming to be a rescue? And does a shelter have any recourse if the rescue does come for several days? Those animals will in essence be taking up needed space.

      • liesltich

        I can’t answer for Mia, but yes, I think rescues should be better regulated, and so should sanctuaries. I am not all that familiar with the CAPA legislation, but I’d like to see more checks than 501 c 3 status on those rescues wanting to take animals.

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100004099843775 Mia Russell

         hmm, that would imply more government, and I hate that idea, but yes, I support some kind of oversight. However I would say that, given the choice between killing them and turning them over to rescues, who overall are good people trying to help, I would turn them over to rescues, absolutely.

      • Damifino

        This is one of the biggest lies being spread about CAPA.  No, the shelter doesn’t have to give an animal to any rescue that wants it.  What they can’t do is KILL an animal that a qualified rescue has offered to take, and they have to use valid reasons (such as a conviction for abuse) to not approve a rescue.

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1534682080 Caroline Page

         I’ve heard dogs were sent to Spindletop from Austin, is this true? Isn’t Austin No-Kill? Were conditions at Spindeltop horrible?

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100004099843775 Mia Russell

         OF COURSE! And I doubt you’ll find any no kill advocate, anywhere, that thinks that what happened was in any way ok. You are taking one incident out of a very few, that is not indicative of no kill at all.You can’t take a few isolated incidents and say that’s the norm. That would be like assuming because they’re some plane crashes, all planes are unsafe. A plane crashing is the exception. Planes are safe.

      • http://profile.yahoo.com/BDQYCZ7DP5AD4YH77N2QE3ZL2A Teresa Fulks-Dyer

        Mia,  they do not appear to really be looking for dialogue so much as trying to bait us with the same old nonsense they always use ie Spindletop.  I am quite certain, in all this time that these same people bring up the same accusations over and over, that someone, somewhere, at some time has already answered their “inquiries.”

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Camilles-Rescue-Page/100002032418100 Camille’s Rescue Page
      • http://www.facebook.com/VeganMeanie Allegedly Mary Tully

        Mia, some 25% of animal hoarding cases investigated in the US are considered to be “rescues.” That’s about 1,500 “rescues” a year investigated for abuse and neglect. It’s not as though this is a non-issue. I don’t think anyone is saying that all rescues are hoarding animals, just that it does happen, and with a regularity that shouldn’t be ignored.

        CAPA legislation mandates that shelters hand their animals over to just about any rescue that asks, while simultaneously discouraging rescue transparency.  Also, not a non-issue. If you were a shelter director handing animals over to rescues, wouldn’t you find the total number of animals (from all sources) who live, get adopted, or die in those rescues’ care to be useful information? Critical information? 

      • Damifino

        “CAPA legislation mandates that shelters hand their animals over to just about any rescue that asks…”

        There’s the same tired lie again.  CAPA says that a shelter can’t kill an animal a rescue has offered to take.  They don’t have to “hand it over”, they just can’t kill it.  It also requires that shelters not refuse to approve rescues for invalid reasons, such as speaking up about abuse or illegal killing.  Of course Mary knows this, but she chooses to keep lying anyway.

      • http://www.facebook.com/VeganMeanie Allegedly Mary Tully

        So their options are to hang on to the animals they admit until they’re either adopted or die of natural causes, or release them to rescues without knowing the total numbers of animals who live and die in those rescues’ care. A slight variation on the theme I described, at best. Shelters are still between a rock and a really hard place.

        In my book, a mandated lack of rescue transparency is a valid concern. Apparently, your mileage varies.

      • Damifino

        And there’s the other lie.  Rescuers are all hoarders, and all the animals taken by rescues will live in cages for years.  Could you at least get some new lies Mary?

      • http://www.facebook.com/VeganMeanie Allegedly Mary Tully

        My comments are still posted above, so I doubt anyone’s actually buying the “you’re lying!” routine.

        You might also want to consider that if you have to put words in my mouth to make me look bad, there might actually be truth in what I’m saying. 

        Now, we can either discuss this like adults, or we can leave the comments where they stand and allow folks to come to their own conclusions about who’s being truthful, and who’s not. It’s your call.

      • liesltich

        Caroline, there is a difference between meaningful and respectful dialogue about issues people disagree on, and using character assassination, insults and games of one-upmanship in order to undermine another person’s argument. I’m sorry to say that most of the most vocal No Kill naysayers resort to all of those tactics, to the extent that dialogue becomes pointless. I can think of only one person I’ve been able to talk to who didn’t resort to personal attacks, nor did he use hyperbole or stretch the truth (i.e. lie) in order to made his point. He seems the most reasonable out of the lot, and it’s too bad he doesn’t post much.

      • http://profile.yahoo.com/BDQYCZ7DP5AD4YH77N2QE3ZL2A Teresa Fulks-Dyer

        Not to mention, they do not appear to really be looking for dialogue so much as trying to bait us with the same old nonsense they always use ie Spindletop.  I am quite certain, in all this time that these same people bring up the same accusations over and over, that someone, somewhere, at some time has already answered their “inquiries.”

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=541538876 Lucy Van Pelt

         This is precisely what they are up to now.  Pretending to be civilized and truly concerned *for the animals*.

        Mia, liesltich, Anon, and anyone else who cares to jump through their hoops  — you are welcome to do so  –however, you will learn the hard way, you are wasting your time on SOME of these people here.

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Camilles-Rescue-Page/100002032418100 Camille’s Rescue Page

         See for yourself. No Kill Simplified! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XxUkWe-LN1U

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Camilles-Rescue-Page/100002032418100 Camille’s Rescue Page
  • dazed_cat

    Posted in error in wrong location,

    By the way, one cannot delete posts here, but one can modify them. Just learned that. :)

  • http://www.facebook.com/VeganMeanie Allegedly Mary Tully

    Nice to see more civil dialogue. It’s a polarizing issue, for sure, but I truly believe most of us are here because we want to help animals. 

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Camilles-Rescue-Page/100002032418100 Camille’s Rescue Page

       Mary do you want to help? The educate yourself: http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/nokill101.pdf

      • http://www.facebook.com/VeganMeanie Allegedly Mary Tully

        I’m a huge fan of self-education, Camille. In fact, I  arrived at the conclusions I have about Nathan Winograd and the “No-Kill Equation” by researching the issues for myself, and by holding his policies and practices up to the light. I encourage everyone to do the same. In any event, I’m happy to see we’re so like-minded in that regard!

        http://www.whypetaeuthanizes.com

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1790394092 Jay Teske

    NY, at least NYC, desperately needs shelter reform laws being brought into place; however, after seeing some of the broadly-languaged CAPA laws were implemented in places like Cali and Deleware, I think we need to tread carefully here and learn from the mistakes of “those who went before.”  Allowing rescue groups to place indefinite holds on animals has really caused significant overcrowding problems in those two States.  

    NYC shelters are already overcrowded and filled with rampant disease.  We need to look at mandating shelters have a system for approving regional (NorthEast region) rescues to pull from their facilities, and that the shelters review applications from rescues in a TIMELY manner (because now rescues wait for months, at best to be approved or denied)but if they are so far away that they can’t reliably remove their pulls from the shelter within the current 48-72 hour time frame then maybe they are too far away to be pulling from the facility.  Having our shelters get even more backed up than they are currently would be a complete disaster.

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100004099843775 Mia Russell

       That is reasonable.
      How about a 48 hour hold?

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1790394092 Jay Teske

        Holds are currently 48-hours and sometimes 72 IF the Mayors Alliance transports are backed up (which they have been more often than not as of late.).  My point was, we need to think very, very carefully about how these bills are worded.  Because the broad, sweeping language has (and is) compounded problems within other communities.  I am still FOR shelters being able to vet and approve rescues to pull from their facilities.  And to conduct audits and inspections when they feel its necessary– its a way of being able to maintain some semblence of “quality control.” I don’t think that any of us wants shelters to be forced into releasing animals to groups who may be subpar in their own care and commitment to the animals.  But also, as we know with NYCACC, shelters also shouldn’t be able to get out of approving new rescues within their own region simply because they already work with a few. 

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100004099843775 Mia Russell

         Alot of times though, shelters don’t want to work with rescue groups, at all. If there was some kind of oversight of rescue groups, by a separate authority, would you then support that?

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1790394092 Jay Teske

        If one could find a way to fund it.  Funding an entirely seperate agency would be quite costly however.  I just don’t think it’s very practical.  NYCACC does have a very good foundation in its partnership with rescues in its New Hope program.  That program sends out daily “First Alert” emails to its partner rescue groups with the previous days shelter intake.  Many animals are pulled directly off First Alert emails.  The New Hope program also is a direct liason between the shelter and its rescues for all issues regarding shelter animals.  Rescue are required to keep detailed records from pull thru foster thru ultimate adoption of the animal.  This is good practice IMO as it is both a means for tracking animals and for keeping rescues accountable to the well-being and appropriate placements of said animals.  Where the shelter has messed things up however, is in adding so many arbitrary, and ultimately meaningless hurdles at times.  They are notorious for making the approval process HIGHLY political as well as for dragging their feet in processing apps to begin with.  So I think the word “timely mechanism” for approving regional applications would be prudent.  The “idea” of New Hope is one of the few things NYCACC does right– their hand in ironing the details is what needs work however.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Camilles-Rescue-Page/100002032418100 Camille’s Rescue Page

    There is no reason to go back and forth fighting. Here is the No Kill Equation, Simplified! I didn’t believe in it until I understood it. Now I am a believer, you can be too. There is nothing better then having hope. Together we can make this happen, one step at a time <3  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XxUkWe-LN1U

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Camilles-Rescue-Page/100002032418100 Camille’s Rescue Page
    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=541538876 Lucy Van Pelt

       Thanks Camille.  That should answer all the questions being posed here.  One can quibble over the particulars, but why should anyone take issue with the effort and GOAL of becoming a NO KILL Nation? 

  • del_jake

    There are alot of claims that we have been lying in regard to CAPA.  Numbers don’t lie.  CAPA is expensive and harmful to the animals, it’s that simple.  

    Within 2 months of CAPA irresponsible rescues were at our doors in DE.  In this case, the dog was noted appearing to be a bait dog
    http://nokilldelaware.org/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderfiles/ag_report.pdf

    Warehousing has become a reality under CAPA
    http://www.nokilldelaware.org/?p=533

    Horrid conditions allowing animals to die a slow and painful deaths is documented
    http://www.nokilldelaware.org/?page_id=2012

    The increased costs of no-kill is also documented for other NK communities.  There are links directly to county budgets and shelter 990′s.  
    http://delawarecapa.blogspot.com/2012/04/millions-of-dollars-common-sense.html  - Reno
    http://delawarecapa.blogspot.com/2012/05/hillsborough-animal-services-director.html – Austin

    • http://profile.yahoo.com/BDQYCZ7DP5AD4YH77N2QE3ZL2A Teresa Fulks-Dyer

      Quoting from your own blogs is not exactly unbiased.  Here, try this one:  http://blogs.bestfriends.org/index.php/2013/02/14/radical-notion-of-not-killing-our-friends/

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100004099843775 Mia Russell

       Well, just because a site has a .org does not mean that the information is correct. dogsbite.org, for example, is extremely biased and their bite statistics have been largely discredited. I would have to verify against an independent, credible source, as I do with everything

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=541538876 Lucy Van Pelt

         True, and even  more so when the source is Pat Dunaway, a notorious, obsessed, stalker of Nathan Winograd and his followers.

      • del_jake

        That .org site  is written by the same person that has the No-Kill Delaware FB page and she is comments on NW’s site all the time.  That’s not my site.  Feel free to look around her site.  She still spouts the same rhetoric as you and the bogus claims about communities saving money under no-kill, so she is your kindred soul, not mine.  I just linked because she acknowledges that some of the information I had originally noted in earlier post like 
        http://delawarecapa.blogspot.com/2012/02/no-kill-to-slow-kill-to-puppy-mill.html

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100004099843775 Mia Russell

         I didn’t attack it. Or say that it was yours. Actually didn’t even think it. All I said was, a .org isn’t always a trustworthy source, and I would have to confirm the info. I confirm everything, regardless of who posts it. If there are problems in Delaware and people are working to change them, then that’s great.

  • del_jake

    It seems to me the no-kill agenda is placing shelters in financial jeopardy and that is something that is a concern.  Shelters can’t help animals if they financially bankrupt themselves.

    Nevada Humane
    Deficits Since No-Kill Effort Began 2006
    2004 403,343.00
    2005 2,168,793.00
    2006 (1,000,367.00)
    2007 (855,614.00)
    2008 (237,365.00)
    2009 (1,000,164.00)
    2010 (293,971.00)

    Austin TX 
    2008-2009 Budget $5,397,428.
    2012-2013 Budget $8,200.000

    Delaware SPCA 
    Deficits since No-Kill Effort Began 2008
    Losses going down by taking less animals each year.
    2008 (814,100)
    2009 (573,154)
    2010 (361,163)

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100004099843775 Mia Russell

       Pat, the economy started tanking in 2007, so that’s really not fair, and our whole government has a massive deficit.

      • http://profile.yahoo.com/BDQYCZ7DP5AD4YH77N2QE3ZL2A Teresa Fulks-Dyer
      • del_jake

        That’s a nice point Mia, but Kent County SPCA, the one NW references as the only shelter standing in the way of no-kill was actually financial sound until 2011 when CAPA went into affect.  They lost $450,000 the first year as a result of CAPA.  So while I do think it’s been a little tougher than 10 years ago, there seems to be a stronger connection to no-kill and it’s awful legislation.

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100004099843775 Mia Russell

        Fair enough, but I’d have to know alot more info to be able to say: This is a direct result of no kill

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=541538876 Lucy Van Pelt

    BTW, del_jake is Pat Dunaway, for anyone who doesn’t already know this.  

    • del_jake

      Whatever Lucy.  That’s the difference between me and your leadership.  I have no need for personal recognition.  It’s the message that counts, and making sure people realize that overpopulation is a fact, and that the bandaid approach of seeking out 4 million homes that weren’t looking to acquire animals is costly and dangerous.  

      If you think I’m Pat on the West Coast and that I’ve done this much research to know what’s happening in Delaware for 65+ posts then so be  it.  I doubt the average person reading here would believe that, and they’ve already had the opportunity to see you calling people horse’s you know whats, so I’m not concerned about who appears more credible.  Have a good evening.

      • Damifino

        Can you prove that there is a real person named J Jacob Carter that lives in Delaware?  I doubt it, just like there’s no proof that there’s a real person named Harve Morgan in San Bernardino, or a retired chaplain in Sacramento.   There are more sock puppets, but naming them all would take up too much bandwidth.

      • dazed_cat

        Why do any of us have to prove who we are when we are posting thoughts, ideas, facts?

      • Damifino

        People who are posting links to blogs written by fictitious characterless are another matter.

      • del_jake

        They would rather argue about identities than the facts.   That’s why I leave it up to the readers.  I’m more than willing to post both sides if that is the concern.  Let the readers decide.  The numbers don’t lie.

        Here is the NK booklet Dollars & Sense which notes “Reduces costs”
        http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/econbenefits.pdf

        Then compare look at the real numbers.  The links go directly to financials used which shows the additional millions needed, not generalizations.
        http://delawarecapa.blogspot.com/2012/04/millions-of-dollars-common-sense.html

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=541538876 Lucy Van Pelt

         Pat Dunaway is Nathan’s most notorious and pernicious stalker.

         Therefore, Pat,  your true identity is relevant to the discussion you are attempting to highjack.

        And don’t flatter yourself, nobody finds you or your numerous incarnations credible or sane.  Unless you count your 12 or so *stalker* buddies, but we don’t really want to get into that again, do we?

    • Anon

      Well if she is Pat then it is only fair that people see Nathan’s opinion of Pat since she has no problems telling us her opinion of Nathan and No-Kill, and Nathan is not here to defend himself.

      http://www.nathanwinograd.com/?p=691

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1483812661 Virginia Roulakis Faubel

    Mia Russell, I want to thank you for offering to remove your comments.  It was brought to my attention you were unable to do this. 

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100004099843775 Mia Russell

       You are welcome, after I saw you could edit, I tried to edit and take the pic down but it only lets you edit the words. I am not an awful person and feel bad that you were genuinely upset. So for that, I apologize.

      • dazed_cat

        Classy move Mia. You are very refreshing in how you handle yourself.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1483812661 Virginia Roulakis Faubel

    Looks like everyone has added close to 100 comments so my part is done.  I couldnt decide on one dog and I actually chose two. If anyone is interested I can post their pictures. One is a 5 year old male JRT owner surrender and the other a 1 1/2 year old stray female lab/retriever mix.  There are many pit and pit mixes at our shelters but I sponsored one in December so I chose something different this time.

    • http://www.facebook.com/VeganMeanie Allegedly Mary Tully

      You rock, VA :)

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100004099843775 Mia Russell

       Awesome, yes please! And, great idea

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1483812661 Virginia Roulakis Faubel

    Aurora

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100004099843775 Mia Russell

       Awwww they’re both SO CUTE!!!!!!

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1483812661 Virginia Roulakis Faubel

        Thanks for your help.

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1483812661 Virginia Roulakis Faubel

        This is Bethany she was sponsored in December.

    • dazed_cat

      They are cute and I am glad you found a way to change a negative to a positive. :)

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1483812661 Virginia Roulakis Faubel

        thanks

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1483812661 Virginia Roulakis Faubel

    Wesley

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1483812661 Virginia Roulakis Faubel

    Both dogs are from the Mahoning County Dog Pound in Ohio. A volunteer group called Friends of Fido helps the dog pound.  Thanks everyone for your help.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1483812661 Virginia Roulakis Faubel

    Update. I just spoke with Tish who heads the volunteer group at our dog pound. Both dogs I picked were already spay/neutered so she is going to allocate the money to other dogs. If she gets a chance she will let me know which ones. Things are tense at the pound as they just went through a parvo outbreak. Anyway,  Aurora was sent home spayed 2 weeks ago with a family but  returned  after a week and Wesley the owner surrender JRT was brought in neutered but he is now at the vets office. He was surrendered because he was urinating in the house but they couldnt be bothered to take him to the vet for his urinary infection. AGHHHHHHH

  • http://www.facebook.com/peter.a.reese Peter A Reese

    People, People.    The comments here are drifting off.     Let’s get back to the business of cowardly anonymous defamation of Nathan Winograd.