your own credentials please Mr Lou Ricciuti.
your degree ?
i have a copy of the Groves Memorandum , Mr H has made an excellent point which can not be so casually dismissed .

As was posted, the papers currently referred to as the “Groves Memorandum” seem entirely legitimate and in keeping with what is known about the timeframe and contemplation of use of these materials as area-wide contamination weapons. The papers are noted as being from the War Department to General Groves, the head of the entire Manhattan Engineering District, more commonly known as the Manhattan Project.

As far as the difference between “depleted uranium,” a term that did not exist back then (1943) as is currently used, and the “fission products” that were available (if any) during this same period, according to the historic record it was far more likely that the memo was referring to the plethora of radioactive elements from the periodic table, including uranium and those available “f” fission products, than to what are currently and commonly called the “products of fission” that come from a running reactor. There were very few fission reactors in place at the time of this memo. Oak Ridge was no exception to the rule.

As far as “dinner being eaten off of a uranium glazed bright orange Fiesta Ware plate,” this too was proven to not be such a good idea. Those items were taken out of production and off the marketplace shelves exactly because of concerns with even so small an amount of radioactive emanations given out by these not-so-wise uses of uranium. Perhaps it’s just a coincidence that the cups, plates and saucers called Fiesta Ware being mentioned were colored as “bright orange,” because there does seem to be some mixture of those with the proverbial “apples” of confusion and fission in his post.

It should be further noted that exposures of the kind being mentioned in the legacy Manhattan Project era War Department documents are most definitely being given as “internal doses” and therefore have little to do with simple counts of external sources of radiation and measurement such as would be associated with casual exposures–not that there are really any casual exposures for these things, including dinnerware of the type mentioned. Caution and care should still be the rule of the day: If, say, your wife decides to hurl one at you from across the room, breaking it into little pieces—don’t breath the dust.

With regard to the metals creation process and the associated timeline of the 1940s: A check of available data and records of the technological abilities of local industry of the day might help to serve as an answer to the poster’s understanding of these metallurgical creation processes. Keeping in mind, of course, that from 1943 to this day and age the periodic table of elements has changed dramatically, with the near constant discovery and addition of new elements during the Manhattan Project and the Atomic Energy Commission era. It would be a wise choice to invest in a new chart of elements and compare that to the old, as would be purchasing a current set of CRC and Ciba-Geigy handbook manuals.

As far as taking a pot-shot at Leuren Moret, well that’s just belittling and unfortunate.

Roger Helbig
UB ‘69
Geological Sciences
DUStory-owner@Yahoogroups.com

Here is the writers’ reference to the Groves Memo

“Way back in 1943, as Niagara’s factories began gearing up to produce uranium (and therefore depleted uranium, which would be dumped in creeks and farmers’ fields and routinely used as backfill and road paving), General Leslie R. Groves had some notion about the dangers, and potential uses, of radioactive materials (including uranium, depleted and otherwise). Groves received this memo in October of that year, regarding a study called “Use of Radioactive Materials as a Military Weapon.” The memo describes the use of radioactive materials to contaminate battlefields and to sicken and kill enemy combatants. It describes how the material contaminates the water, air, soil, and food, and how the material is absorbed into the human body and its negative health impacts.

The memo proves Groves, and presumably many more people associated with the production of the atom bomb, knew the dangers posed by depleted uranium as he sat down to dinner at the Niagara Falls Country Club shortly after the war. He and probably every person at that table knew that waste uranium products had been poorly disposed of in Niagara County, as they would continue to be for the decades to come, corrupting the environment for millennia.”

Since Niagara Falls was not the location of Manhattan Project enrichment facilities - those were in Oak Ridge, Tennessee, it is not likely that DU was disposed of in the Niagara Frontier area. DU does not occur as slag - it is kept as DUF6 (Uranium Hexaflouride is kept in sealed steel containers because it can be converted from solid to gas) and the gas is what was used for uranium enrichment - DUF6 is what remains after uranium enrichment.

Folks: Before some nuclear physicist takes exception to the article as it was posted this afternoon, I thought I’d make a correction or two as I’m not at the office. Don’t want anyone thinking that we’re not looking this up and quoting thoroughly.

TO WIT:
IN the paragraph that reads: ” At the time, Hooker Chemical was already the nation’s leading producer of fluorine and chlorine, chemicals essential to the creation of uranium hexafluoride—a middle step in the enrichment cycle between raw uranium ore and the isolation of U-235, the isotope used in weapons and reactors.”

CORRECTION:
Should read and was a mere typo on my part - ” At the time, Hooker Chemical was already the one of the nation’s leading producers of chlorine, and fluorine, a chemical essential to the creation of uranium tetrafluoride—and middle step in the enrichment cycle between raw uranium ore and the isolation of U-235, the isotope used in weapons and reactors.”

The corrections to the Web entry will be made tomorrow.
Thanks and sorry for any technical inconvenience that this might have caused. Oops, my bad.
LR